You need to account for sampling bias. This is a forum that strongly attracts a self-selecting group comprised almost entirely of those on the left. Very few Republicans actually find their way here, and the few that do are typically downvoted into oblivion.
At the same time, there’s a flood of supposedly leftist accounts, most new, trying desperately to get Trump elected, at the same time as news comes out that… well, that Russia is doing an awful lot of that shit.
This is a forum that strongly attracts a self-selecting group comprised almost entirely of those on the left. Very few Republicans actually find their way here, and the few that do are typically downvoted into oblivion.
So then why would Russian lackey’s come and post in a forum where they know no one will change their minds?
So actually your argument proves to me that they are not Russians trying to turn the vote. I get accused of being Russian, every single day here. lol
I thought that would be obvious. Again, this is a self-selecting group of lefty folks. If someone works in one of Russia’s troll farms, and their job today is to try to divide the left, then they’re gonna go to where the left hangs out.
If someone like that shows up shouting, “Trump 2024! MAGA!” then they’re not going to make any headway. Like I said, Republicans here tend to get downvoted into oblivion.
So instead, they show up and go, “I’m a lefty, too. Very left. In fact, I’m so leftilicious that I hate Harris. Don’t vote for Harris, she’s just like the Republicans! Instead, vote for [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING]! Because believe me, [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING] is much, much better! Be ideologically pure! And whatever you do, don’t worry about Donald Trump becoming president, because I’m sure that with enough of us voting for them, [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING] will totes win!”
It’s true, they do. But not always. It depends on how many there are in any given post, spam-upvoting each other. And… it depends on how successful their divisive arguments are. As far as they’re concerned, it doesn’t matter if 99% of the time they fail to get traction. They’re going for that 1%, that one susceptible person who can be convinced to throw their vote away on a third-party candidate in a FPTP election where that vote has a 0% chance of electing that third-party candidate.
Personally, I don’t think you’re one of the Russian trolls. I think you’re one of their victims.
Personally, I don’t think you’re one of the Russian trolls. I think you’re one of their victims.
Friend, I’ve been voting since the 1988 election. Almost always third-party. Based on my social connections and third parties and groups I have met and protested with.
And before that–even when in grade school–I never liked the idea of two main political parties running things.
I’ve been doing this long before “Russian propaganda” was a thing. We didn’t even have internet when I started questioning things.
The truth is, it’s the system designed by those in power that ensures third parties never get a fair shot, not the fault of those of us trying to break free. Every vote for a third party is a step toward tearing down the walls built by the ruling class, and you’d better believe that’s a vote well spent.
Personally, I don’t think you’re a Duopoly worshipper. But I do think you’re one of their victims.
I want to ask you something. Don’t answer immediately, stop to really think about the answer and what it means.
How many politicians have you voted for that either won or got second place? In our FPTP system, those are the only outcomes that matter. Winning means you got into an elected position. Second place means you may still have a political future.
If you’ve been voting mostly third-party your entire adult life, there is a very good chance you have literally never had any effect on any election whatsoever. You and every single other voter who voted for your preferred candidates could have stayed home on election day and not only would the winner have remained the same, the person who came in second would have stayed the same.
I’m willing to bet that if you stop and add up every single time your preferred candidate won or got second place, and every single time that person was running as either a Democrat or a Republican, you’ll find that it’s the same number.
Let’s break this down. Seems like you’re saying that unless my candidate wins or places second, my vote doesn’t matter.
But if the vast majority of people are convinced that only the “top two” matter, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why? Because everyone keeps voting for who they think’ll win instead of who actually represents them.
This mindset locks us into the exact duopoly that keeps the same tired system in place. The moment we accept that third-party candidates don’t matter, we’re giving more power to the existing system that thrives on limiting our choices. Voting isn’t just about winning today, it’s about showing that people do want alternatives, and that sends a signal that can’t be ignored forever. I vote for who best represents my values. I don’t just vote for who I think will win.
Let’s break this down. Seems like you’re saying that unless my candidate wins or places second, my vote doesn’t matter.
YES. That’s exactly what I’m saying. In a FPTP election system, that’s literally how it works.
I’m not a fan of it. I’d love for a vote that goes to a third party to actually count in some way. But in the current system we all live under, that’s not what happens. Instead, at best you get a Ross Perot - someone who pulls votes from both parties. He became a media darling for a while because of it. But you know what? All his voters may as well have stayed home, because he got neither first nor second place. We had Bill Clinton, we had Bush the Elder as a one-termer, and both Perot and his independent party faded into obscurity.
That won’t change until we get rid of FPTP elections. That’s a prerequisite for third-party votes mattering.
Until then, you have literally thrown every vote you’ve ever cast for a third-party candidate away. It didn’t matter. And it even helped the candidate you were most ideologically opposed to.
You need to account for sampling bias. This is a forum that strongly attracts a self-selecting group comprised almost entirely of those on the left. Very few Republicans actually find their way here, and the few that do are typically downvoted into oblivion.
At the same time, there’s a flood of supposedly leftist accounts, most new, trying desperately to get Trump elected, at the same time as news comes out that… well, that Russia is doing an awful lot of that shit.
So people here are suspicious.
So then why would Russian lackey’s come and post in a forum where they know no one will change their minds?
So actually your argument proves to me that they are not Russians trying to turn the vote. I get accused of being Russian, every single day here. lol
I thought that would be obvious. Again, this is a self-selecting group of lefty folks. If someone works in one of Russia’s troll farms, and their job today is to try to divide the left, then they’re gonna go to where the left hangs out.
If someone like that shows up shouting, “Trump 2024! MAGA!” then they’re not going to make any headway. Like I said, Republicans here tend to get downvoted into oblivion.
So instead, they show up and go, “I’m a lefty, too. Very left. In fact, I’m so leftilicious that I hate Harris. Don’t vote for Harris, she’s just like the Republicans! Instead, vote for [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING]! Because believe me, [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING] is much, much better! Be ideologically pure! And whatever you do, don’t worry about Donald Trump becoming president, because I’m sure that with enough of us voting for them, [INSERT CANDIDATE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING] will totes win!”
And they get downvoted to oblivion. And even stalked. It happened to me actually! lol
It’s true, they do. But not always. It depends on how many there are in any given post, spam-upvoting each other. And… it depends on how successful their divisive arguments are. As far as they’re concerned, it doesn’t matter if 99% of the time they fail to get traction. They’re going for that 1%, that one susceptible person who can be convinced to throw their vote away on a third-party candidate in a FPTP election where that vote has a 0% chance of electing that third-party candidate.
Personally, I don’t think you’re one of the Russian trolls. I think you’re one of their victims.
Friend, I’ve been voting since the 1988 election. Almost always third-party. Based on my social connections and third parties and groups I have met and protested with.
And before that–even when in grade school–I never liked the idea of two main political parties running things.
I’ve been doing this long before “Russian propaganda” was a thing. We didn’t even have internet when I started questioning things.
The truth is, it’s the system designed by those in power that ensures third parties never get a fair shot, not the fault of those of us trying to break free. Every vote for a third party is a step toward tearing down the walls built by the ruling class, and you’d better believe that’s a vote well spent.
Personally, I don’t think you’re a Duopoly worshipper. But I do think you’re one of their victims.
I want to ask you something. Don’t answer immediately, stop to really think about the answer and what it means.
How many politicians have you voted for that either won or got second place? In our FPTP system, those are the only outcomes that matter. Winning means you got into an elected position. Second place means you may still have a political future.
If you’ve been voting mostly third-party your entire adult life, there is a very good chance you have literally never had any effect on any election whatsoever. You and every single other voter who voted for your preferred candidates could have stayed home on election day and not only would the winner have remained the same, the person who came in second would have stayed the same.
I’m willing to bet that if you stop and add up every single time your preferred candidate won or got second place, and every single time that person was running as either a Democrat or a Republican, you’ll find that it’s the same number.
Let’s break this down. Seems like you’re saying that unless my candidate wins or places second, my vote doesn’t matter.
But if the vast majority of people are convinced that only the “top two” matter, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why? Because everyone keeps voting for who they think’ll win instead of who actually represents them.
This mindset locks us into the exact duopoly that keeps the same tired system in place. The moment we accept that third-party candidates don’t matter, we’re giving more power to the existing system that thrives on limiting our choices. Voting isn’t just about winning today, it’s about showing that people do want alternatives, and that sends a signal that can’t be ignored forever. I vote for who best represents my values. I don’t just vote for who I think will win.
Right because that’s absolutely and inarguably true.
YES. That’s exactly what I’m saying. In a FPTP election system, that’s literally how it works.
I’m not a fan of it. I’d love for a vote that goes to a third party to actually count in some way. But in the current system we all live under, that’s not what happens. Instead, at best you get a Ross Perot - someone who pulls votes from both parties. He became a media darling for a while because of it. But you know what? All his voters may as well have stayed home, because he got neither first nor second place. We had Bill Clinton, we had Bush the Elder as a one-termer, and both Perot and his independent party faded into obscurity.
That won’t change until we get rid of FPTP elections. That’s a prerequisite for third-party votes mattering.
Until then, you have literally thrown every vote you’ve ever cast for a third-party candidate away. It didn’t matter. And it even helped the candidate you were most ideologically opposed to.
If you dispute that, you dispute math.