…you lick it

No, they really are doing nothing but aiding and abetting a con man because he appealed to their pet issue to get them to do it. He already has a vegan option, it’s called a PBJ. Part of being in jail means you don’t get the choices you’d get out on the outside, and part of life in jail is accepting that. If he didn’t want to suffer, he shouldn’t have stolen billions from innocent people – or at least went so far as to steal from other rich people.

You’re just not listening because you, yourself likely are a vegan. And you don’t want to admit you’re getting played.

And if that means brigading and defending pieces of shit who rob other human beings of their hard-earned money and has stolen billions of dollars, giving bad faith arguments, deconstructing justice as a fundamental concept and in general being a bunch of fucking cultists, who cares. You’ll happily accuse people who want to see people like him be punished, even in a court of law, of being subhuman savages while happily acting as if the ends justify the means to enforce your evil ideological bullshit. And who cares who is harmed by your words and actions? People don’t matter, animals do.

You’re literally the guy who said you don’t believe in rights but think people in jail should still be able to be vegan, and to another guy you admitted you don’t know what should be done with people if there is no jail. You even went so far as to defend revenge while the rest of your little gang of trolls accused everyone else of being subhuman, violent, bloodthirsty savages for even thinking other people deserve to be punished. Other people of your little tribe or whatever were even arguing with CSA survivors because of it.

You need to sit down and drink yourself a nice tall glass of shut the fuck up. And take the other awful jackasses of yours out with you.

It’s obvious that’s what’s happening. Vegans are coming out in droves arguing people shouldn’t ever be put in jail simply because SBF is a vegan and they care more about their own than anyone else. They’re circling the wagons around this guy, and they never considered that he could just be lying, exaggerating or purposefully playing to them to get them to do exactly what they’re doing.

What they’re doing isn’t accomplishing any good. Neither are you when you defend them. All it’s causing is discord.

I don’t care about sharp words from a brutish authoritarian.

But you do care about writing a half-page’s worth of the most obscene, arrogant, self-satisfied, apologist garbage you can muster because ultimately, this is about the lack of respect you have for other people, especially abuse victims who you step all over to get what you want. Like here:

If you care about victims of abuse, as I do, then you’ll turn instead to approaches which result in fewer of them to be counted: alternatives to incarceration, and the pursuit of relative normalcy within the institution for the incarcerated where it still exists.

Who, in the world, would reasonably listen to someone like you? Someone who thinks like that? You know there are actual CSA survivors in this thread, right? Possibly even rape survivors? And you’re here talking that kind of shit thinking you know them better than the rest of humanity and have the right to speak for them?

Did you know I am an abuse survivor? That most of my friends are? Did you ever even think to emphasize with me, or ask me who I am or why I feel the way I do?

No. You absolutely did not. It didn’t even cross your mind to, because you’re a disgusting abuse apologist who doesn’t give a shit about anyone other than yourself. You likely only support getting rid of punishment specifically because you know it will hurt everyone else.

You’re sick.

It’s literally just empathy - calling it “evil” sounds like projection to me. Especially when you’re the one advocating for further harm, and trying to justify it with mob mentality.

Imagine calling apologizing for, defending and using as a political tool to demand no one be punished for anything, denying humanity justice, empathy.

You absolutely are disgusting and vile. Get away from me.

Something being “right” is entirely subjective, and personally I don’t think that punishing people without purpose fits that definition.

Yet here you are, pushing and needling and imposing your will upon others, demanding other people give up core values that make humanity what it is because you don’t want to accept that what you’re advocating for is wrong and harmful.

My logic is that if an action needlessly hurts another, it shouldn’t be done. Not sure how art hurts others. The same goes for your space example. And your history example.

No, your logic consists of a long list of thought-terminating cliches you watched in movies or played in video games. You don’t think. You haven’t thought about what you’re truly asking for and you haven’t considered at all how it will harm other people because you simply don’t care about all that. You only care about yourself. And your snakes.

You know why the suicide rate for rape victims is so high, for example? Because of evil monsters like you who protect their rapists from justice with the same tactics.

Also, you realize that what you did just then was a strawman… right? Because I never made the argument that nothing is worth doing without having some tangible result. I argued that we shouldn’t hurt people for no other reason than spite.

Actually, you are, because justice, like art and history and love, is a thing whose benefit is moral and intangible, and here you are demanding its repeal without one single fuck given for the consequences of it. It is the moral backbone that makes all social relations possible. Without it, you have no humanity. Yet here you are, demanding we give up our humanity because you saw a documentary about Sweden once, played The Last Of Us 2 and decided that was all you needed to know.

Are you sure about that? Because the rest of the modern world doesn’t have capital punishment.

Here’s some more blatant strawmanning from you. It’s awfully telling you equate capital punishment with justice in a thread specifically about a man in jail and not being executed.

But what little can we expect from someone who doesn’t even respect his fellow man enough to respect the value and necessity of justice?

Well, good news: prison absolutely is for punishing people, not rehabilitation. And it never should be. Prison should never go away, specifically to spite disgusting monsters like you who want to do away with justice, ensuring that no one who does evil things will ever see meaningful life-rendering consequences for their actions.

You’re the kind of person who ruins the lives of abuse victims. Who tells rape victims that they need to put aside their emotions for your idea of a greater good while nothing is ever expected of their rapists or of you. People like you destroy millions of lives peddling this shit – there’s even a CSA survivor in the comments calling out another one of your ilk.

I’m a prison abolitionist first and foremost, and I thought that’d be clear from the overall thrust of my original post - but apparently not. Respect for the incarcerated, their humanity, and their ethical commitments is very much the compromise position.

No, what you are is an apologist. The idea of doing away with punishment, even prison, is nothing more than cheap apologia, anti-survivor, anti-justice, completely immoral and anti-human. Though given veganism is being used as the main driver for you to peddle your evil political agenda in this thread, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if you truly did not give a fuck about any of that.

I nor anyone else with decency, goodness and common sense are going to give you or your evil ideas any quarter nor should they. The very idea of doing away with punishment or even prison given the horrific reasoning you hold for it is morally repugnant and can be dismissed on its face.

You are disgusting. Get away from me. I hope you never get what you want.

My guy, we need only read the thread to see that all of you brigading and concern trolling are in the minority. It’s a fact. Specifically in this case because Sam Bankman-Fried is the perfect example of the two-tiered legal system we have in the U.S., a different set of rules and consequences based on wealth. The only reason he’s even in jail suffering the way he should be is because he started stealing from other rich people.

And christ, man, accusing me of pushing an agenda? How cliche can you get?

Oh, excuse you?

So you agree that the is is solely about people wanting blood, solely out of spite, and doesn’t actually serve any tangible purpose? Glad we’ve got that figured out.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, my friend.

You literally are out here parroting one-liners you memorized from shitty revenge movies and you’re going to accuse me of pandering to cliches? Get the fuck out of here.

You’re in here pushing evil, anti-justice apologetics to once again deny the American people the justice they deserve after so long and it’s obvious. You don’t care about what’s right or what’s good for Americans or what’s good for morality or the world, you only care about what makes you personally feel better. And I won’t fucking let you get what you want.

Holy shit, did you dig that strawman from the set of a bad 90’s action movie or are you just happy to see me?

Did you know that doing what’s right has its own intrinsic value and needs to be done for its own sake, and that not everything has to have a tangible, materialistic value? And that our inner, intrinsic, immaterial needs are just as valid as, if not more important in many ways, than our material ones?

By your logic, we shouldn’t have space programs either, because those are largely about national prestige and dick-waving competitions at the U.N.

By your logic, we shouldn’t have art either, because art doesn’t have any real tangible value or purpose aside from what people assign to it. It literally only exists to make people feel better, yet here you are, arguing that anything with an immaterial purpose is therefore invalid.

Should we have no history either? History doesn’t put food on our plates or pays our rent either, and when pressed, history buffs can give only nebulous, vague allusions to intrinsic, immaterial value their field provides, too, yet here you are.

So you agree that you’re just concern trolling, hoping that by stereotyping anyone who demands justice as some 90’s revenge movie stereotype that you can smear and discredit them, so you can do away with the notion of justice?

So you agree that you oppose justice?

No one even said anything about an eye for an eye. Denying someone vegan meals in prison isn’t ripping their eyes out. Neither would imprisoning that fat fuck for life either. Even killing him wouldn’t be that.

You may be opposed to the idea and the cause of justice, but the rest of the world is not, and you need to seriously sit down with yourself and seriously reflect on what it is you’re doing and what you hope to accomplish here, because what you’re doing is wrong.

You. Unless you think we haven’t noticed you’re hiding behind a debate about the importance of punishment, the viability and legitimacy of the prison system and abuses of the U.S. prison system in a situation that has nothing to do with them because you’re trying to promote veganism.

Do you think we are stupid?

Semantics.

And the whole debate is asinine anyway because

1. he already has PBJs and PBJs are given specifically as a vegan option.

2. he doesn’t have the right to be vegan when he’s locked up

3. you don’t have the right to exploit crime threads to push your shitty political agenda.

This thread is not about you, not about vegans, and you coming in here brigading and unethically deciding the fact that a dude who stole billions is claiming to be vegan (whether that claim is true or false) is more important than justice and literally everyone else is unacceptable, get the fuck out of the thread

They don’t have to be. That’s not the point of it: the point is to punish them or permanently keep them locked away. If we wanted to guarantee they’ll never hurt anyone ever again, we’d execute them and still do in some states.

No one is obligated to or wants to rehabilitate him or people like him. We respect their agency to make their own choices, and in return they accept the deleterious consequences if they choose to do horrific shit. Like this fuck you’re using to push your agenda.

Well, I’d rather my tax money not be wasted denying people justice just to satisfy authoritarian twits like yourself, but who am I to disagree with you? I’m just a lowly meat-eater while all he did was steal billions from innocent people, taking away their retirements, and we all know we lowly meat-eaters don’t mean as much as the fluffy squirrels and singing birds you think are your friends.

Yeah, can’t be out here forcing cultists to think about what they’re actually saying

It solves the problem of not allowing them to use suckers like you to manipulate everyone else to doing what he wants.

Glad to know veganism is more important than justice.

He doesn’t have the right to be a vegan in prison. He’s in PRISON. Being justly punished. When you’re in prison, you don’t get to live the way you want barring basic human rights, and being vegan isn’t a human right, it’s a lifestyle choice.

Get over that fact and take your cultists out of the thread

He’s not unempathetic for having a different opinion than you.

You are giving a kneejerk reaction.

You are saying awful things.

People will read your post and think “Mental illness makes people murder babies, guess I better not trust them, they’re dangerous”.

Imagine everyone else thinking mentally ill people are raving psychopaths champing at the bit to murder their families.

It’s one thing to oppose the death penalty. But trying to imply a baby murderer isn’t responsible for her actions because she is mentally ill – which you don’t actually even know she is anyway – is a special kind of fucked up.

You’re literally doing everything you accuse him of doing and more.