So you’re saying the conditions exist where men in their workaday lives don’t have the time or bandwidth to be aware of the positive messages in feminism, meanwhile radical and controversial feminist messages are put on blast so that everyone knows about that?
If you actually care about dismantling toxic masculinity you’d actually take the time to understand men when they do speak out about the things that bother them, instead of trying to turn it around on these men being too ignorant because they don’t have the privilege we do to ruminate on society like we can.
Maybe if feminism could do more in their social circles to shut down feminist misandry before it becomes an issue for men, instead of reinforcing toxic masculinity by insisting men should just shut up and deal with it, then these men who are “trapped in the system” wouldn’t have these problems with feminism to begin with.
But I suppose as long as we can reaffirm our own perception of superiority towards these lower beings then we’ll be fine. Most of the male feminists I see are dudes who are comparatively well off to the average working man, and I don’t think that’s just random chance. It’s easy to be a male feminist when you are in the privileged position to philosophise, but I don’t think it’s fair to just expect men in disadvantaged positions in life to just eat the same blows we can shrug off.
I think you’re confusing ‘patriarchy’ with men in-general.
Of course it’s not men’s fault that society is failing them, but that doesn’t mean patriarchy isn’t a part of the systemic problem.
A big part of the suffering of working class men is inescapably about our material conditions, and the way in which society reinforces those conditions through gender roles. We can both have sympathy for those disenfranchised men and recognize the problem and where it lies.
Fuck off with that “they’re too poor to think” shit. I’m a working class male feminist and I find that patronization to be more insulting than anything else you’re alluding to. They’re shaped and insulated from realizing who their true oppresors are but they still have agency.
So you’re saying the conditions exist where men in their workaday lives don’t have the time or bandwidth to be aware of the positive messages in feminism, meanwhile radical and controversial feminist messages are put on blast so that everyone knows about that?
Brother, you are soooo close.
I’m saying it doesn’t matter in function.
If you actually care about dismantling toxic masculinity you’d actually take the time to understand men when they do speak out about the things that bother them, instead of trying to turn it around on these men being too ignorant because they don’t have the privilege we do to ruminate on society like we can.
Maybe if feminism could do more in their social circles to shut down feminist misandry before it becomes an issue for men, instead of reinforcing toxic masculinity by insisting men should just shut up and deal with it, then these men who are “trapped in the system” wouldn’t have these problems with feminism to begin with.
But I suppose as long as we can reaffirm our own perception of superiority towards these lower beings then we’ll be fine. Most of the male feminists I see are dudes who are comparatively well off to the average working man, and I don’t think that’s just random chance. It’s easy to be a male feminist when you are in the privileged position to philosophise, but I don’t think it’s fair to just expect men in disadvantaged positions in life to just eat the same blows we can shrug off.
I think you’re confusing ‘patriarchy’ with men in-general.
Of course it’s not men’s fault that society is failing them, but that doesn’t mean patriarchy isn’t a part of the systemic problem.
A big part of the suffering of working class men is inescapably about our material conditions, and the way in which society reinforces those conditions through gender roles. We can both have sympathy for those disenfranchised men and recognize the problem and where it lies.
Fuck off with that “they’re too poor to think” shit. I’m a working class male feminist and I find that patronization to be more insulting than anything else you’re alluding to. They’re shaped and insulated from realizing who their true oppresors are but they still have agency.
I am also working class and I understand that even in the same class circumstances can be vastly different.