Yes, I made it using a laptop’s trackpad, how could you tell?

[Image description: Panel 1: Young man confidently walking, his vest bears the Wayland logo. Behind him is a grunt with the Gnome logo on his face holding a katana. The young man says: “It’s high time you retire, old man!” Panel 2: An old man with a long beard and the Xorg logo on his chest is sitting on a throne and petting a rat, the XFCE mascot. He says: “It’s still a hundred years too early for you to defeat me!” ]

  • Pasta Dental@sh.itjust.works
    6911·
    9 months ago

    Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it’s not even funny anymore. X11 is stuttery, unsecure, unmaintaned, can’t really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR). For now with my usage, the only big disadvantage I saw from Wayland is that you can’t restart it like X11 when something goes wrong, but that’s the thing, I haven’t had to restart it like I had to often with X11. Even on Nvidia Wayland is better now, except maybe for gaming but that’s Nvidia for you.

    • Rustmilian@lemmy.worldEnglish
      363·
      9 months ago

      You absolutely can restart Wayland. The command to do so is just specific to whichever DE or WM you’re using as they have their own Wayland Compositor implementation.

      • Pantherina@feddit.de
        111·
        8 months ago

        DEs should implement good commands for that

        • start session from tty (example startplasma-wayland)
        • logout (example qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 3 3)
        • restart wayland server (example kwin_wayland --replace)

        Some of those are completely undiscoverable

    • Aganim@lemmy.world
      2018·
      8 months ago

      X11 is stuttery

      Not for me

      unsecure

      Source?

      unmaintaned

      Received a number of commits just last week: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg

      can’t really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR).

      VRR is supported, at least on AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Variable_refresh_rate

      For HDR you have a point, afaik.

      Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it’s not even funny anymore.

      And yet X11 works rock solid for me, while Wayland still crashes whenever I so much as look at it wrong. The amount of time and work I’ve lost because of Wayland crapping out on me isn’t even funny anymore. On AMD by the way, so no blaming Nvidia’s crappy Linux support.

      Wayland will probably be the better product one day, but this day is not that day, at least not for every use-case. Great that it works fantastically for you, I genuinely advise you to keep using it, but keep in mind that ‘mileage may vary’ from person to person. Personally for now I’ll stick to X11, as I need to get work done and unfortunately don’t have time to muck around with Wayland’s antics.

      • Rustmilian@lemmy.worldEnglish
        183·
        8 months ago

        Not for me

        Source?

        The Xorg devs have literally stated as much themselves.

        Received a number of commits just last week: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg

        The vast majority of those commits are literally because of Xwayland.

        VRR is supported, at least on AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Variable_refresh_rate

        Barely, it has numerous issues. The Wayland VRR implementations address much of those issues.

        For HDR you have a point, afaik.

        HDR literally can’t be added to Xorg without rewriting the entire stack. They’ve been trying to get HDR working for something like around 10yrs before they gave up completely.
        Wayland on the other hand has been designed from the ground up to be completely expandable, directly addressing the largest problem with Xorg, maintainability.

        …at least not for every use-case… …‘mileage may vary’ from person to person…

        Yes, that’s true. What would reduce edge cases however, is if you reported those bugs.

        Wayland will probably be the better product one day…

        That day is coming sooner then later.

        Personally for now I’ll stick to X11…

        That’s fine, however you should switch as soon as it becomes viable to do so.

      • Pantherina@feddit.de
        114·
        8 months ago

        X11 is insecure. Any program can read any keystroke, any windows contents, can input anything anywhere etc.

        The concept of separate apps basically doesnt exist.

    • mlg@lemmy.worldEnglish
      31·
      8 months ago

      10% FPS drop compared to X11 because of perfect frame requirements

      X11 has literally never stuttered even on the hack that is WSL

      The only time I have actually gotten X11 to crash was an unrelated kernel panic.

      Also no one uses X11 networking by default lmao, its always X forward over SSH, that is definitely secure and still something wayland can’t do.

      • feral_hedgehog@pawb.social
        4·
        8 months ago

        Also no one uses X11 networking by default lmao, its always X forward over SSH, that is definitely secure and still something wayland can’t do.

        Sure it can, with waypipe (like, for a while now…)
        Just waypipe ssh <host> [command]

        You can even run X apps over this through cage even when X11 forwarding is disabled by the host (because, you know, the security issues…)

        • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          8 months ago

          It’s still buttry smooth, you just have to downgrade back to x11 when the Nvidia drivers shit in there hands and claps.

            • nexussapphire@lemm.eeEnglish
              1·
              8 months ago

              I thought it was hyperbole, that sucks. If your using an Nvidia card from before 2014(kepler) those drivers aren’t officially being supported anymore on linux. I’d recommend upgrading, maybe going used if your strapped for cash. 20series and later is getting a lot of love rn so id probably wouldn’t go older than 20 series.