The mastodon and lemmy content I’m seeing feels like 90% of it comes from people who are:
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~30 years old or older
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tech enthusiasts/workers
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linux users
There’s nothing wrong with that particular demographic or anything, but it doesn’t feel like a win to me if the entire fediverse is just one big monoculture.
I wonder what it is that is keeping more diverse users away? Is picking a server/federation too complicated? Or is it that they don’t see any content that they like?
Thoughts?
Younger folks have been raised on apps and other polished devices with oodles of effort put into UX design.
Older folks grew up learning DOS commands, memorizing the IRQ of their sound card, and other clunky shenanigans.
In their current state Lemmy, Mastodon and other services are too complicated for most young folks to bother with. Not all, but most, especially the filthy casuals.
This is the answer. I’m 26 and most of my peers didn’t really use the internet beyond the occasional usage of the school library computers until Apple released the first iPhone. By that time places like Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit were up and running.
That’s all their experience with the internet is. Polished experiences through dedicated apps on extremely popular platforms. Now those people have had kids and all those kids know is the same thing. It’s all apps on phones and tablets.
Lemmy: A) Is too complicated in it’s current form for those types of people to effectively understand and use.
B) Lemmy is currently emulating a type of early internet experience that only nostalgic older millennials nerds crave. General users tend to prefer bigger platforms.
Lemmy is nostalgic? Lemmy is novelty for me. Looks and feels so modern. Simplistic, yet modern. Am I weird?
No I feel the same way. I think it’s because it’s part of an ecosystem of concepts built with all its predecessors mistakes in mind. There’s still learning to do but the foundation is simple but is also modern.
yeah, too modern. perhaps they’re using a third party client?
Hello,
Are you aware you are replying to a year old comment?
Also, for less modern: https://old.lemmy.world/
i am also using a third party client
Lol, older millenials never saw the early internet experience. UUCP, FTP, Gopher, Mosaic, et al.
Most people didn’t use the internet when the first iPhone came out either. That shit was slow and unusable at the time, and locked to AT&T.
This thread is a couple months old at this point but I figured I’d reply anyway.
Maybe you had a different experience but I experienced this transition in middle/high school in west MI. The first Gen iPhone released in 2007. 3G was widespread and while that might be considered slow these days, it was state of the art speed at the time, so it wasn’t considered “slow and unusable”.
In 2007, kids my age didn’t have much tech beyond an iPod or MP3 player. By 2009, almost everyone had a smartphone. That was a huge leap in internet accessibility.
I mean, Reddit killed off ‘polished UX’ and that’s what drove me here. All the great 3PAs are on the Fediverse, after all!
My Soundblaster used IRQ 7. Why do I still know this.
Because when the great reset happens and VHS is hot shit again, you’ll be ready.
Ahh, the great modem connection sounds, letting you know that the internet was only just (roughly) 2 minutes away. Or longer.
56k4life
I’m 26, probably among the oldest of gen z. I love lemmy. The quality is higher here because the community is smaller. There are much less reports than there used to be on reddit.
Yeah Im like one of the youngest with an age of 14.But thats okay because lemmy is just awesome for me.
“No, I can’t come out tonight, I’m optimizing my
CONFIG.SYSfile so I can have a mouse AND my Soundblaster work at the same time!”I use Ivory for browsing Mastodon, and I’d bet that the app is more polished than any other first-party social media app.
The problem with Mastodon (and Lemmy to some extent) is that the onboarding process is not as straightforward, thus causing some friction for the less tech-savvy users.
Word! I feel active learning and feeding off one’s brain curiosity diminished for younger folx.
With that comes laziness to “set things up”. “OMG, it’s too complicated for me. I’m having a headache. I can’t, I just can’t.”
Couldn’t agree more
We are used to Comfort and once you are used to it (or even never experienced else) its hard to lay it off for other benefits
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Jeesus you made me feel older. Setting irq jumpers. Sigh
Gen Z Tech enthusiast here; I hope more Zoomers join.
The fact that a majority of even the older Gen Z (like me) have been reported to not understand file systems or general tech and internet knowledge is scary.
My take on this is not that this is the default early adopter demographic (bereal, TikTok, etc…cmon old dudes don’t act like we are “leading the charge”). But, there’s a good chunk of older tech oriented folks that see a glimmer of hope in the fediverse bringing back some bits of the “old web” imo.
While most of the people like me don’t love meta or Twitter it was kinda good enough, but Reddit was kind of a last straw. I was there when all these companies were born and at the time we were all teen and 20-something early adopters (believe it or not even Facebook used to be cool!) and we’ve watched them all slowly degrade. Very young folks prob don’t care as they don’t really use any of these services, but us old nerds want to avoid the pitfalls of the Web 2.0 era.
Web3 and the crypto-decentralization efforts were really ham fisted…I think most experienced techies saw through all the BS and recognized how wildly inefficient it all was, not to mention outright scammy in many cases. Fediverse is unproven but I think it has potential, and I think many of us older techies feel that way.
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aka: early tech adopters!
these folk are always the ones trying new things, especially anti-corporate things. They aren’t keeping people away. this is just how the bleeding edge of new technology. The communities natural grow out over time as more people show up and start to outnumber them. But it’s thanks to them that niche new stuff gets supported in the first place while it builds up it’s audience (and reduces the friction to joining)
Is picking a server/federation too complicated?
Yes.
Absolutely.
Literally the single biggest problem with fediverse adoption, brought up in every discussion about migrating to it. It will never replace centralized sites as long as it remains confusing and complicated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LemmyMigration/comments/145epgc/looking_for_a_lemmy_website_try_lemmyworld/
I’m new here, and new to federated applications (and fit OP’s description perfectly). This federated stuff is going to remain niche unless somebody figures out a way to make it approachable.
Reddit first time:
> open app > choose some things I like > see all the thingsLemmy first time:
> open app > ????? > google how to use it > choose a... server? > ?????I called this a few weeks ago on reddit and people weren’t impressed with my negativity.
I’m sorry, but you can’t start a website with:
Lemmy is a selfhosted social link aggregation and discussion platform.
And expect 95% of people to do anything other than close the window.
Yep, that is literally me. I am not particularly techy or whatever and I came here because RiF shut down and the maker said they would be on lemmy.world. i had no idea what that meant but i made it here.
Much googling was involved and after i made like 4 accounts on different instances, bumbled around, settled down and learned to subscribe to stuff, i subbed to communities specifically about the fediverse and finding new communities. I also tried like 3 different apps and aettled on Liftoff so far.
I still havent figured out how to reliably see mastodon or kbin stuff or if i even want to.
I can see how most people wouldn’t bother and have no idea why any of this even matters. I still find reddit much easier to use (and important for ongoing world events like the war in ukraine, where it isnt about what we can aggregate but where posters from that conflict put their content originally, a huge amount gets posted directly to reddit and they dont have time to sit around debating the finer points of internet usage), but philisophically i understand why the fediverse is important.
Also learning sbout the concept of defederation (as it regarded Beehaw) was a brainmelter and i felt like i was missing out on “content” be ause of how big it was. My other issue was around not undersranding who runs all these instances and quite frankly having no reason to trust they wouldnt do some crazy stuff themselves.
What if we can’t make it more approachable? Should we forever rely on corporations and their unethical platforms to be able to communicate? Just because people aren’t willing to learn a few very basic things?
This is not a problem with the technology, but with people.
This perfectly illustrates the problem with the Internet as a whole in the age of smartphones.
Your idea of the “first step” is always “open app” but the Internet is not apps. The Internet is servers, and a web browser is the client app for most of it.
Since I know how to use the Internet, it was simple AF to get a Lemmy account going. I went to https://lemmy.world and signed up. Now I’m on Lemmy.
If all you know of the Internet is “open app” on your phone, you have a lot more to learn about the Internet as a whole.
I think most common people are accustomed to “being fed”, rather than exploring for themselves. That’s why most of the original platforms were just getting copy pastes from other platforms. Originality requires effort.
I personally have been looking at lemmy thinking what’s new… Only to realise that maybe it’s time “I” create that new. :=
that’s a common problem. kids don’t know how to use computers because they’re so used to using apps.
Do we really need 10s of millions of people here???!
Having gone through the time when AOL first allowed its members access to the Internet, the impression I ended up with was that it was exactly having the sub-culture of the time overwhelmed by the vastly larger culture of the AOL members that mainly screwed things up.
I think the desire for massive crowds is just a reflection of what we’ve become used to in the last couple of decades rather than the conclusion of thinking it through.
Mind you, I’m not saying that I have the answer, I’m trying to throw out there the idea that maybe in a forum of forums system “the more” aren’t “the merrier” because the sweet spot of participation to make a forum pleasant is somewhere in the middle rather than more always being better.
I think the desire for massive crowds is just a reflection
of capitalism. outsiders don’t consider you successful unless you have x amount of users or make x in revenue or are top 3 in your category. and even when you match the desired characteristics, it’s still not enough. what about this quarter? profits over everything. the solution isn’t to bend for other people, but to create something that’s authentic to you and be satisfied with what you have.
It’s my very first day. There was a small learning curve, but then I just found memmy and it’s back to a normal Reddit like experience for me. Really not too hard at all.
I think federated software should probably be focusing on a web-first rather than app-first approach. That has to include an excellent mobile web experience, which Lemmy could use a bit of work on (the software is fairly young and this is not meant as criticism). Mainstream users do have an app-first habit right now. I don’t think that’s necessarily because people prefer apps to websites, but because companies are pushing apps and deprecating websites. I’ve read that app users are, on average seven times more profitable than web users.
It’s easy to figure out how and where to sign up when you’re linked to https://lemmy.fmhy.ml/. When inviting people to Lemmy, it’s probably good to just directly link a server.
Op too young to realize who made Reddit popular to begin with.
That’s what I’m here for lol. I mean this is how reddit was when I first started there. Same with digg
Oh c’mon, 30s is not
older.Early adopters of almost anything tend to be niche. These Threadiverse sites are looking to pick up where pseudo-message boards like Digg and Reddit left off without being extremist havens like Voat and other bullshit. So let’s look at who the early adopters of those sites were. Because… They’re not that dissimilar to the demographics that you’re describing. Reddit didn’t start out as the kind of place that just anyone went to. It tended to be tech heads in their mid-twenties or older, gamers, and chronically online people. They tended heavily to be male. And there tended to be some… Really unfortunate widely-shared opinions.
As Reddit grew, it changed. But it took time. It took there being content on Reddit to appeal to a wider set of people. And that’s going to be the case here. It needs to reach a first sustainable mass where enough content is being created to engage and keep the users who first joined it. But that userbase is going to be rather similar. There are always going to be subgroups that are different, but for the most part, the same kinds of people are going to be the early adopters. Creating a breadth of content that will appeal to more and attract a wider variety of users over time will help people feel more comfortable with it.
And, yes. The Fediverse is kind of weird to most people. I was in an argument the other day where someone was insisting that saying you saw something on Limmy or KBin was wrong, you saw it on the Fediverse, and could everyone just stop being wrong please. That kind of pedantic culture is only going to make adoption even slower than it already is. Because most people, they like to go to a site and create a login to look at that content. The Fediverse isn’t really that complicated, but it takes a little jump in how you think about websites to go from something like Twitter or Facebook to something like Lemmy or Mastadon. But people were kind of confused about the leap from message boards to social media like MySpace and Facebook as first too. They came around. It took time. It took exposure to the content. It took people using it and sharing it.
So, yes. The Fediverse is mostly a monoculture right now, focused on the people most likely to make the most of out it: Tech heads with some time on their hands for hobbies. The kind of people who either might make their own Fediverse instance or who would know the people that would. Those tech heads aren’t exclusively Linux users, they’re not exclusively over the age of thirty, and tech heads aren’t exclusively the user base, but yes, we’re going to start out seeing an imbalance. That’s normal. That’s to be expected. What’s going to be concerning is if five years from now we have the same or a worse imbalance. That will mean that the Fediverse is stagnant or shrinking instead of growing. That will be a time to rethink some strategies for sure. But for right now, all we can do is be active, share the site with other people, and try to get it to spread to more diverse demographics.
As a 30+ Linux using IT guy I feel offended lol
This is just confirmation that I’ve found my people
IMO, most likely boils down to a few things:
-Lack of awareness, because the reddit protest was more of a vocal minority than a lot of people realized. For the mainstream crowd, even if people were upset, they didn’t care enough to actively search for an alternative. Even if they did, there were instantly a bunch of small team projects trying to bank on striking gold the way Reddit did when digg failed. This meant that support was splintered across multiple platforms and there was no post that even hit the majority of front pages or r/all that said “okay everyone, we’re all going to lemmy.world” or any other alternative.
-General confusion around the tech\platform and how it works. While it may seem to tech people that it isn’t any worse than any other site, just the concept of “picking a server” is a barrier to entry that makes a mainstream person think “oh I have to do research, maybe I’ll do this later.” I don’t know if this has been fixed yet, but as of a couple weeks ago there was some techy syntax to be able to properly link to content from outside servers properly if you’d viewed it and copied the link via your server.
-Older tech focused people tend to have self selected for caring about technical issues and searching for solutions to the issues they encounter. They tend to want control over their technology, and have it be open source or decentralized. The confusing nature of the fediverse is a lower barrier to entry for them.
-Performance. Performance was fairly poor at the critical moment when the apps got shut off, even if it’s improved now.
-User friendly dedicated apps that didn’t have a barrier to entry, like a warning that it was “early access” and granted devs special access to user data to help develop the app, were not available.
-Content. Because of all the aforementioned, there’s just not the user base and content yet to populate all the communities people want with enough fresh dopamine drip to grab all the mainstream lurkers. If Lemmy continues to grow and attract quality content though, there will eventually be a critical mass, because people usually go to what’s the new hip place after the early adopters have paved the way. Once you start getting a sizeable chunk of teenagers here and they start telling their friends “have you heard of Lemmy? It has less of that lame boomer crap” then you’ll see mass adoption. Alternatively, if the older tech folks end up just posting things that aren’t seen as hip\cool, that moment may not come.
When did 30 become “older”?
