Disagree. Maybe as used by right wing folks but it’s definitely used to describe apologists of authoritarian regimes claiming to be communist, ie China and Russia.
It depends where, but I’ve only really seen it said on Lemmy in discussions regarding international relations and my time on Reddit has been significantly reduced.
I have also seen a lot of people on Lemmy who are obvious tankies argue that it is a slur against communist supporters rather than a specific criticism about tribalism, realpolitik, and internal imperialism engaged by communist countries.
It is in the vested interest of tankies to change the meaning of the word.
It is used as a slur against unapologetic socialists and communists sometimes, although actual tankies would like to pretend it’s only a slur and not descriptive of Stalinists.
Do you mean that in the original Marxist sense, where a dictatorship of the proletariat is contrasted to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie - ie that it is referring to the domination of one class over the structures of democratic government rather than a literal autocratic or oligarchic regime? Or the ML sense where it means “Everyone obeys the Party Line, please ignore who controls the Party”?
The classic Marxist sense, although i think Lenin’s ideology was necessary for a successful revolution to occur in his time. The Party went down hill majorly when Stalin took over instead of Trotsky.
I’m down. I understand support of Lenin, even if I personally disagree and side more with the SRs, and have sympathies for the Makhnovists. Post-Lenin is when it gets truly gruesome.
Eh, I think Trotsky and Lenin have some responsibility. While I am in full support of October (and Leninists ideology), I think the Bolshevik repression of the 20-21 strike wave was a troubling development demonstrating separation between the party and the class. (Kronstadt began in sympathy with that strike wave.) Then in the 10th Party Congress, the Workers Opposition took up some of the workers demands and pushed a program to keep party and state separate. They urged union control of the economy and democracy. In response, Trotsky argued that unions would no longer be necessary at all! Even Lenin thought that was going too far. But this is when democracy came under attack even within the party and factions were formerly banned.
The text was banned in Soviet Russia in March of 1921, by resolution of the 10th Congress of the Communist Party. The headings, “individual or collective management” and “bureaucracy and self activity of the masses” seem prescient.
Trotsky became a champion of democracy a little late, only after methods of repression he himself used were turned against him.
It is certainly a path. One which has failed repeatedly. I don’t quite understand the dogma which surrounds this particular bit of conventional wisdom. It seems to intentionally ignore an entire century of revisionist thought, and rapidly becomes a braindead purity test in my experience.
I do support a dictatorship of the Prolitariat as a necessary step if achieving true Communism, dont get me wrong.
Yeah, but being a Tankie isn’t liking communism, it is saying that the Soviet Union did nothing wrong in Hungary in 1956.
Yes that’s the OG definition, but as of late it has become a catch all for people anywhere left of classical lib.
Disagree. Maybe as used by right wing folks but it’s definitely used to describe apologists of authoritarian regimes claiming to be communist, ie China and Russia.
Hence my usage of “as of late”
It depends where, but I’ve only really seen it said on Lemmy in discussions regarding international relations and my time on Reddit has been significantly reduced.
I have also seen a lot of people on Lemmy who are obvious tankies argue that it is a slur against communist supporters rather than a specific criticism about tribalism, realpolitik, and internal imperialism engaged by communist countries.
It is in the vested interest of tankies to change the meaning of the word.
It is used as a slur against unapologetic socialists and communists sometimes, although actual tankies would like to pretend it’s only a slur and not descriptive of Stalinists.
Do you mean that in the original Marxist sense, where a dictatorship of the proletariat is contrasted to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie - ie that it is referring to the domination of one class over the structures of democratic government rather than a literal autocratic or oligarchic regime? Or the ML sense where it means “Everyone obeys the Party Line, please ignore who controls the Party”?
The classic Marxist sense, although i think Lenin’s ideology was necessary for a successful revolution to occur in his time. The Party went down hill majorly when Stalin took over instead of Trotsky.
I’m down. I understand support of Lenin, even if I personally disagree and side more with the SRs, and have sympathies for the Makhnovists. Post-Lenin is when it gets truly gruesome.
Eh, I think Trotsky and Lenin have some responsibility. While I am in full support of October (and Leninists ideology), I think the Bolshevik repression of the 20-21 strike wave was a troubling development demonstrating separation between the party and the class. (Kronstadt began in sympathy with that strike wave.) Then in the 10th Party Congress, the Workers Opposition took up some of the workers demands and pushed a program to keep party and state separate. They urged union control of the economy and democracy. In response, Trotsky argued that unions would no longer be necessary at all! Even Lenin thought that was going too far. But this is when democracy came under attack even within the party and factions were formerly banned.
Here is the text of the Workers Opposition manifesto. https://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1921/workers-opposition/index.htm
The text was banned in Soviet Russia in March of 1921, by resolution of the 10th Congress of the Communist Party. The headings, “individual or collective management” and “bureaucracy and self activity of the masses” seem prescient.
Trotsky became a champion of democracy a little late, only after methods of repression he himself used were turned against him.
It is certainly a path. One which has failed repeatedly. I don’t quite understand the dogma which surrounds this particular bit of conventional wisdom. It seems to intentionally ignore an entire century of revisionist thought, and rapidly becomes a braindead purity test in my experience.