- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
Fear Mongering About Range Anxiety Has To Stop — CT Governor Calls Out EV Opponents::Several state governors are fighting fear mongering as they attempt to reduce transportation emissions in their states.
I read the article and clicked through their own reporting on range anxiety: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/07/16/is-range-anxiety-really-worth-all-the-angst/
it seems to me that this screams out for better shared transportation - If I’m going less than 6 miles, I’d much prefer an Uber or easy subway ride or the like to owning a car at all. However, that’s something government would actually have to fund and do something rather than just passing rules on to other people to make happen.
That minor rant aside - I still maintain that the 37 miles per day is a commute and going out to lunch. If we actually wanted to have people change habits in a really useful way - it’d be to start incentivising / mandating telework where possible - stop all the unnecessary car traffic of any kind. You know what’s more environmentally friendly than ZEV vehicles? No vehicle (use).
That all said - most people I know buy vehicles to solve as close to 100% of their needs, not 95.1% - because vehicles are so expensive. The range anxiety haven’t been about the daily commute for like a decade - even the 87 mile leaf did that fine and most anyone I’ve ever talked to was perfectly OK if they had the leaf JUST to drive to work and back in the summer / nice weather. Very few people buy a car like that though, because they need to get through bad weather or carry more stuff or people or tow or …
And then there’s the all american road trip. Roughly once a month I go 180 miles one way on a quick trip to see family. They don’t have a car charger setup anywhere. I’m not at all sure if they can run an extension cord out, but then I’m on slow charging, and I also drive around while I’m there (unless I asked to use their car for all trips). I’m usually there for a couple days and come back. I have to get gas on each trip. This is not in reality if I had a leaf. If I had a more expensive car it’s do-able, but I still would be anxious till there’s more “top up” points. I go by probably 20 gas stations I notice on the trip, and there’s probably 100+ more within 2-3 miles from the route I take. I know of one charging station.
They have an answer in the article
Yes - plan you trip around your car. I mean, sure, but harkening back to needing Trip Ticks like in the early 1990s isn’t exactly a “towards the future” sort of vibe. And they’re right - a lot of it is vibe.
Yes, get some therapy and Xanax and you too can love the EV.
Ok, but ranting about the sheer stupidity and patronizing nature of the article around range anxiety over - back to the road trip. Many people like to drive to their vacations to save money, especially if they have 3+ people going and would have to also rent a car at the other end of a flight. My next trip is a 900 mile trip over 2 days. With ICE I literally just put it in my GPS and go - no issues because I can stop and get gas ANYWHERE. We’re just NOT THERE yet with chargers, and even with superchargers, we’re talking going from a 10 minute break to get gas, grab a snack and use the restroom to more like 30 minutes waiting for the car. I don’t have issues with planning lunch or dinner around that, IF I could be sure there was a super charger where it makes sense to break.
The thing that’s stupid is it’s not “range anxiety” really, I have to worry about getting gas and finding a gas station. We just have gas stations already built out and getting gas is a 5 minute process to get another 360+ miles of range. If the charging was close to that to add 360+ miles of range, no one would blink an eye, but instead, it’s 30 minutes to add maybe 100 miles of range - which leads to making trips take much longer in many cases. The other anxiety inducing thing is if you run out of gas, AAA can bring you 2 gallons to get you to a station. I haven’t heard about the equivalent for EVs yet.
The important thing is - talking down to people isn’t going to get them to listen to you. Telling people they shouldn’t worry about their yearly or more often road trips because normally they’re driving to work and back isn’t a great sales pitch really. If I have to rent an ICE car 2 times a year for a road trip, that’s at least $1,000 each time, which itself pays for a lot of gas, or 3 new car payments (for most people). It doesn’t make people think EVs are cheaper.
Me feeling this way is a problem, because I do think EVs are a good thing, and I really want one, but not for massively more than a direct replacement of my existing ICE car, and not if I have to also maintain an ICE car for trips. One car is cheaper than two to keep going no matter how frugal the second car is.
That is my biggest concern also. I need 500 miles on a charge. I live 200 miles from my family, and will often drive up and back in a day for holidays and birthdays. But I also will drive a state or two away to visit extended family, I am not going attempt those drives with 250 mile range.
Have you looked at where charging stations are? Chances are, there’s a station somewhere along your route. And even if there isn’t, you’re going to someone house? Bring a portable charger and plug in the car.
There are very few places you can’t drive without being able to find a charger if you plan ahead a little.
Edit: Not to mention, how often are you making these drives? You talk as if it’s happening every day, but that’s half your waking day in driving.
This is always the point in the EVangelizing where the person doing it loses me.
The whole point of the objection, whatever it is, is that it’s a way the person uses their car that happens often enough, to them, that it’s a concern. A rebuttal based on “well how important is that, really?” isn’t an argument against an ICE at that point, it’s essentially just an argument saying, “You’re wrong for wanting that.”, which is basically presuming that one knows better than that person what that person finds to be important.
Even if they’re only making this drive once a year, it’s clearly important to them that the vehicle they own is capable of handling it at least as smoothly as an ICE. If an EV can’t do that, it’s just a shortcoming of EVs for that person, end of story. It doesn’t make the EV suddenly immune to that criticism to suggest they just not make that trip or rent a vehicle that can do it when that time comes. It’s a way they are currently using their vehicle, and a way in which they want to use whatever vehicle they own in the future. If a certain vehicle can’t do that, it’s a shortcoming that is worth noting and accepting.
If I make a drive across country once a year, is that something I should base my car purchase around? That’s about as silly as purchasing a truck because I intend to move in the next 10 years.
The point isn’t “how important is that” it’s “why are you not thinking of alternatives.”
No one said you have to make a 500 mile drive in a single go, but the constraint is being put there artificially. It would be like me saying “I cant get behind an ICE because a single tank only takes me 400 miles and I need to drive 500 miles once a year.”
And the other aspect, is that if you’re truly unable to find a route that handles charging? Rent a vehicle that handles that edge case. Just like you rent a moving truck instead of buying a moving truck because you’re going to move.
You’re still missing the point. Are you really claiming that most people who go on long trips once a year haven’t thought about renting or flying? Or that they’re unaware of those alternatives? They’re reasonable alternatives even with an owned ICE car - do you want to throw 3,000+ miles on your car vs a rental?
Presumably there’s reasons they drive an owned car vs renting or flying already.
Look, let me try an analogy I’ve beaten my head against for a decade or more - do you use Windows on your computer? Why haven’t you switched to Linux? It’s better in almost every way - it’s free, it’s user controlled, it doesn’t break / have patches forcing reboots monthly, it runs on older computers better for longer, etc etc etc. Now think of why you (probably) don’t use Linux. It doesn’t run Microsoft Office. It doesn’t run your games. It doesn’t do whatever that Windows does. Is my response that - “well, you shouldn’t play games on your PC, you should have a game console, or rent time via remote control, or just you know - why are playing games important” actually compelling to you? Now apply that to cars and driving long distances.
Modern EVs charge in less than 15 minutes so… it’s really not longer than a gas stop, at least not in any situation I’ve been in and I own two gas vehicles and an ev. Like I literally get 200+ miles of range in 15 minutes. Your numbers are just way way way off.
And what in the world are you talking about. 1000 to rent a car two times a year? Where the fuck are you renting from?
I’m sorry but you’re just really really really misinformed here. There are plenty of aaa charging services if you get stuck, but you’re not gonna get stuck cuz EVs are good about letting you know if you’re gonna be in trouble.
I don’t really want to spend the time to refute every point in your post, just seriously, go try renting a modem ev (non-American, American EVs are terrible)
I’d say the same about yours.
Maybe those binders are correct for you in your EV but not for me with my ICE.
I’ve never needed 15 minutes to get gas. As long as there’s an open pump, if all I’m doing is gassing up, it’s 5 minutes, if that.
And I’m getting 400 miles of range for that time.
And I can do that literally anywhere in the entire US. If a town is big enough to have a red light, it’ll probably have a gas station within 5 miles.
I like that EVs are a thing, and that they’re becoming even more of a thing as time goes on. Someday I’m sure I’ll own one too.
But if I need a new car in the next 5 years, I’m not even considering one, and most of the reasons for that are reasons that proponents are acknowledging, even as they’re trying to be patronizing and condescending and shaming anyone who points out valid drawbacks.
It’s not like people are saying EVs are bad, just that the reality of the situation right now is that, for many, deciding to switch over to one from an ICE will mean, in some ways, changing the ways they live around the limitations and necessities that come with the EV, and that for many, these changes tip the scales away from the EV.
People don’t want to accept the changes and added concerns that come with making that switch, and that doesn’t make them wrong or stupid or bad.
When EV infrastructure gets to the point where owning, fueling, and servicing one is as cheap, quick, effective, and ubiquitous as owning, fueling, and servicing an ICE vehicle then I’m sure many, many more people will be convinced. Until then, it’s less a matter of needing to dispel rumors and more a matter of the technology needing to catch up to the level of ICE.
on road trips that’s all your doing? You’re not going in for a bathroom break and to buy snacks? Somehow I highly doubt that and even if you are you are in the minority. There’s a reason they’re called rest stops out on long stretches of roads, they’re not just for gas.
you haven’t pointed out any drawbacks, you’ve just spread a bunch of incorrect FUD.
This is also incorrect, unless you are towing things. Like I said before. This is just a bunch of FUD.
edit: i just reread your initial comment. you literally bring up getting a snack and using the restroom. ahaha you can’t even keep your own story straight.
What the fuck are you talking about? I never said that.
Maybe learn to read a username before you cock off.
I only know what people tell me about EVs, I’ve never had one. You’re the first and only person to claim I can charge an EV in 15 minutes. Where can I do that?
The last time I rented a car was in the UK about 2 months ago. It was for exactly 1 week, which is actually a little light for most of my trips in the US, and cost about 1000 GBP before insurance for an automatic (I don’t drive stick). In the US, when I’ve looked up car rentals just now, a fullsize SUV for my road trip coming up, return to the same place, was 1,303.99 before insurance. A Midsize that we’d just squeeze into like my owned Outback was $770 before insurance (on Kyak.com - feel free to point me to better places to search). I’d say that’s averaging $1,000.
I’m aware I didn’t specify the ICE cars I’m talking about in this post, that was in another one. I’ll admit, if I was going to want a Tesla 3 size car (which doesn’t work for me for many other reasons), I could rent an ICE for more like $540 before insurance. The reason a Tesla3 size car doesn’t work is my road trips are 3-5 people, with luggage for a week or more, plus their hobby large backpacks. We also have a crosstrek and we literally packed it full for 3 people, and the Outback was uncomfortably full with 5 people. So I’d figure I’d need the cargo capacity of a full SUV for 5 and midsize SUV for 3.