I know this is typical for the US so this is more for US people to respond to. I wouldn’t say that it is the best system for work, just wondering about the disconnect.
I know this is typical for the US so this is more for US people to respond to. I wouldn’t say that it is the best system for work, just wondering about the disconnect.
Large part of the reason the school system is what it is today, historically, is that employers did not want to pay for training and education of their own workers (takes too long and is too pricey), and instead decided to put responsibility for that on the public through the school system. Long hours, military-like discipline, so many years to go through, and commonly about topics and skills that should be early professional training, not something anyone has to go through regardless of job.
The idea that you’re an adult with 18 is historically absurdly late, given that humans reach puberty around 14, and it keeps getting pushed higher by the ever-growing demands of employers not wanting to pay for their employees’ training, practically demanding fully experienced workers for entry levels, and parents and the public to be responsible for that. Now with college and all, many Americans are of the opinion that you’re not reeeeally an adult until 21, or 23, or 25 and sneer at the idea… well, no wonder, because maturity comes not with age but with experience, and if you shelter and restrict people for X years while they are in school and legally a minor, they will grow up once they’re out of that, no matter if they’re 14 or 18 or 21.
The geographic differences are particularly crass. If you ask an American whether a 23-years-old “college kid” is a real adult, they will most likely consider them barely grown up naive kids, but in Europe, where college/university is actually not an infantilizing expansion of the school system but adult education, people are clearly much more mature. When I started going to uni around 18, I rented an apartment from a private landlord, had to care for my own insurances, taxes, bills, groceries, finances, everything… while my American friends were still being cooked for in their dormitory, with an enforced bedtime, rules about who can do what in their dorms, weird secret societies, drama, the “school spirit”… It felt so childish and infantilizing - but guess what, they mentally stayed teenagers until they graduated and got in touch with the real world. It’s all nurture, barely any nature.
People used to be adults around 14 or 15 throughout history, until capitalism came along and set unreasonable expectations for what parents and the school system should do. The fact that kids’ lives are all taken over by school is by design.
Edit: I see we have an influx of Redditors® lately. God damn it, I thought Lemmy was somewhat safe.
I tend to ignore people dunking on Americans because, let’s face it, a lot of the criticism is warranted. But this seems completely out of left field. I’ve never heard this stereotype before.
We don’t infantilize people in their early 20’s. American’s don’t view 23 year olds as “naive kids.” We tend to view 18 and year olds that way but by the time you hit 22 you are definitely an adult. A lot of us move away from home for college, spend a year or two in the dorms and then get a private apartment. Finances permitting, people tend to choose not moving back in with their parents after graduation. Also keep in mind that a significant chunk of Americans don’t go to college and enter the workforce/military/whatever at 18.
What kind of dorms are you talking about? That sounds more like a boarding school than a college dorm. The only rules involved fire hazards (no candles) and no illegal substances. I don’t know anyone who has had a dorm experience even remotely like that. Maybe at extremely religious private colleges? But those would be an exception to the rule.
I know the drinking age being 21 is seen as dumb by most of the world, and a lot of Americans feel that way too. Most Americans drink before 21 anyway.
I think their comment is the first time I’ve seen someone seriously suggest that “actual” adults are 15-16. It actually really creeps me the fuck out.
It’s not as uncommon as you think it is. There are a whole contingent of mofos who want the voting age lowered to 16, mostly millennials who realized the system was bullshit at a young age. I’m kind of on the fence about it.
I’m sure some creeps would co-opt it for their own evil purposes, though, though I don’t think that’s a reason not to do it.
I don’t agree necessarily with arbitrary maturity lines like drinking at 18/21, but suggesting people might be thought of as adults at 14 is madness. Most kids aren’t finished going through puberty at that age and it’s different for everyone (by like 5-6 years potentially). I think 18 is the “arbitrary” age for most things because 99% of kids have finished puberty at that age and we aren’t in a rush to get those 14-18 year old working in factories.
The whole “capitalism delayed adulthood to 18” arguement doesn’t make sense to me considering very capitalist mills and sweatshops have historically used child labour throughout history.
Also, very important point most people ignore, the human brain doesn’t finish developing until around 25.
I agree with you, but isn’t the whole “the brain doesn’t finish developing until around 25” claim bogus?
Yes, your brain develops and changes throughout your life. It’s just anti-child bigotry bullshit from millennials who of all people should know better.
Ngl, I don’t think I’ve ever heard it from a millennial. But yeah, its kinda silly given if your brain stopped developing you would lose your memory…
or at least, ability to gain memories. I’m not a neuroscientist.
Military-like discipline? In public schools? You couldn’t be more wrong.