• skeeter_dave@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    21
    ·
    11 months ago

    Centrism is a sign of a healthy, functioning Democracy. People are allowed to hold nuanced beliefs that don’t line up with yours and this “enlightened centrist” bullshit is just pure tribalism from people on the far fringes. You are contributing to creating an “in group” and an “out group” which historically has worked out very well for persons living in Communist and Fascist societies.

    • oatscoop@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      I get what you’re saying, but an “enlightened centrist” is someone that argues for compromise between a sane position and an insane or evil one – their “middle ground” is still awful.

      A “centrist” take between two relatively sane positions isn’t enlightened centrism. “Moderate” used to be the word for that, but given how extreme the political discourse has become the meaning of that word is changing too. You’re better off qualifying what positions you’re moderate on and how, or people will make unkind assumptions.

      • crashfrog@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        11 months ago

        That’s the cartoon, but it’s not accurate. A centrist is just someone whose positions aren’t strongly correlated with each other the way they tend to be on both the left and the right. Like there’s a reason I can accurately guess your position on abortion and climate change if I know whether you live closer to a Cracker Barrel or a Whole Foods; a centrist is just one of the people whose position on abortion isn’t strongly correlated with their position on climate change.

        • Cowbee@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          That’s not what a centrist is, lol. People tend to have similar stances on seemingly unrelated topics because the underlying knowledge and values required to coherently support one view can be applied to others.

          As an example: someone who is anti-racist is also likely anti-homophobia, as usually those stances are both related to anti-bigotry.

          Centrism, however, seeks to pay attention to both sides as equally valid, regardless of the merits of either position, and then seek compromise as a way to maintain the status quo. Centrism is, in all reality, the most privileged position one can take, as they seek to avoid change and preserve their already stable way of life.

            • Cowbee@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              11 months ago

              Usually what crashfrog described is someone who only has positions as a relation to others, and is described by their lack of alignment. This person would likely be called an Independent if they held strong, multidirectional views (like a Libertarian that loves the idea of universal Healthcare and UBI), and as such doesn’t align with any mainstream party. If they hold relatively weak, multidirectional or otherwise views, they would be considered “moderate,” though it’s worth noting that the Democrat party is the moderate, liberal party, and as such the republican party and those between the democrats and Republicans are not moderates, but right-wing.

              That’s why it gets messy, the US only has right wing parties of varying degrees.

          • crashfrog@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            That’s not what a centrist is, lol. People tend to have similar stances on seemingly unrelated topics because the underlying knowledge and values required to coherently support one view can be applied to others.

            Sure, that’s what you’d expect, reasonably - everybody you talk to is really online and politically informed, so their political views highly correlate.

            But most people aren’t politically informed, so their political views don’t correlate. People in “the center” don’t hold the median view on every issue; they tend to hold an eclectic mix of right and left wing views. Against climate change and against abortion, etc.

            • Cowbee@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              11 months ago

              This is increasingly disappearing. More people are getting more involved politically, regardless of level of political education. Centrism, the idea of accepting both sides as valid and coming to a consensus, is typically a position held by conservatives that do not wish to out themselves as such in the company of liberals.

              • crashfrog@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                11 months ago

                This is increasingly disappearing. More people are getting more involved politically

                Sure, but more people are born every day (and people die every day, too.) Individual people probably increase in political sophistication over time but that doesn’t mean the population does, at all.

                Centrism, the idea of accepting both sides as valid and coming to a consensus, is typically a position held by conservatives that do not wish to out themselves as such in the company of liberals.

                Has a single person who identifies as a “centrist” told you they feel that way? No? Then why are you so quick to believe it?

                • Cowbee@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  The population is, as society develops and becomes increasingly social and interconnected, we are forced to become more aware simply through sheer osmosis.

                  I believe centrism is typically a shield for conservatives because I’ve seen it used that way many times. A good example is when “centrists” were against BLM and supported ALM, they claimed they were centrists in order to shield themselves from even worse backlash.

                  • crashfrog@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    The population is, as society develops and becomes increasingly social and interconnected, we are forced to become more aware simply through sheer osmosis.

                    I’m sure this is something you’re assuming to be true, but again it doesn’t work like this. I mean, sure, individual people get older at the rate of one year of age per year. But the age of the population doesn’t necessarily increase or decrease, unless there’s an imbalance in the rate of deaths and the rate of births.

                    A good example is when “centrists” were against BLM and supported ALM, they claimed they were centrists in order to shield themselves from even worse backlash.

                    This an example of exactly what I’m talking about, though. You’re talking about a person that has liberal-coded views on some issues and conservative-coded views on others (BLM/social unrest.)

    • Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 months ago

      Well, US is not a functioning Democracy, and centrism in US means “pretty right wing but pretends not to be”.

    • thehorsefromthehorseheresy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      You’re missing the point of “enlightened centrism”. The whole point is that it isn’t actually attempting centrism, just a (almost exclusively) far right wing ideas with lipstick on.

      • nugmeister64@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        11 months ago

        that sounds exactly like what a radical leftist would say. is anything right of your viewpoint “far right” too?

    • PotatoKat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      11 months ago

      Except when the political climate is between slightly center left and extreme far right “centrism” ends up being pretty far to the right instead of actually in the center.

    • samus12345@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Being center of left and right means being about where the Democractic Party in the US is. Anyone who considers themself a “centrist” between Democrats and Republicans is right-wing because the GOP is so far, far right and the Dems are so center-left.

      • uis@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        11 months ago

        Dems are so center-left.

        Your dems are more right than Union of Right Forces and Republican Party of Russia back when they existed.

      • rchive@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        11 months ago

        I can probably come up with issues Democrats are further to the left than most other countries on. Abortion, for example.

        • Cowbee@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          Abortion isn’t a left/right issue, but a socially progressive/conservative issue. Left/right are being used in this context to refer to economic composition.

          As leftism is historically the revolutionary position, and rightism the conservative, you can technically call abortion protections left, but in this specific context economics are at play.

          That’s where the whole idea of “socially progressive, fiscally conservative” positioning comes from.