Man why do you all have to do the interrogation shtick? It’s really jarring to have online randos looking into one’s private life yanno?
Can you elaborate? Most anarchists (not all) I’ve run into have been in the US
I am Greek. Anarchists have a way less favorable impression of MLs, partly because our ml orgs were never destroyed like the American ones, so we get to see ml praxis daily.
I’m Greek too, as are a number of the anarchists I know- the KKE isn’t in power and none of the anarchists I talked to ever took time out of their day to shittalk it either.
Εγώ έχω διαφορετικές εμπειρίες. Δεν είναι οτι το οι αναρχικοί μιλάνε για το ΚΚΕ όλη την ώρα, αλλά σίγουρα δεν συνεργάζονται μαζί τους και μπορεις πολύ συχνα να δεις πως τους αντιμετωπίζουν.
I prefer to keep it so other people can read, I don’t care to flex. And yeah, I would agree, they don’t cooperate, but its certainly not directly antagonistic either.
The worst I heard was anarchists at most regard them as ineffective nerds, in particular for fucking around with parliament instead of more direct action and supporting encampments/squats. For me that’s a long way from the ‘red fash’ depictions you get about ‘authority’. One of the more cutting complaints I heard was that a group would spend more time on if its banners read as ‘ML’ or ‘ΜΛ’ to be properly decolonial instead of just going out in the street.
That’s what I meant with fucking around with parliament- I don’t disagree that they’re too committed to the existing state. I have a lot of issues with the organization but it’s a product of more than just being ML - there’s a lot of historical reasons at play too and I can appreciate why they reluctant to challenge the state directly.
This is the same reason organizations I work in don’t cooperate with electorally-oriented groups either.
Dogmatism is a problem in every tendency. Same reason I push back on anarchists (or MLs) trying to start fights over political disagreements from like a hundred years ago. The problem is the capitalists with the boot on all our necks.
Mate, it’s not just the party. Half my family are tankies. I have immense and exhaustive experience with ML hypocrisy and their true thoughts about Anarchists. I also have a lot of lived experiences on this. A lot of my best friends as a young adult were in the KNE. I’ve written for KNE papers. It’s part of the reason why it’s worthless to ask me to debate my positions. It’s when people can’t understand that and want to act all sealiony and/or condescending that I turn to ridiculing them.
Y’all can believe what you want about “left-unity”. I have had both enough experience and theory to hold my positions on it.
. The problem is the capitalists with the boot on all our necks.
We all know anarchists and MLs agree in theory, but when it comes to praxis, cooperation only works when it’s anarchist praxis.
Not trying to sealion - l’m not even trying to debate you at this point.
Most of my family that were ‘tankies’ have passed and most of the younger ones are completely disengaged politically.
spoiler
Also as a trans person they were way cooler about it than the more ‘traditional’ ones, one of whom was misgendering me on her deathbed.
I will also say that my lived experience doing years of encampment support in the US, I run into way more MLs (formally or informally) who I have been able to consistently work with towards shared goals. That’s why I feel obligated to point out that most of the distinction made online (in particular about hypothetical revolutions) fade away in the real world.
Not trying to sealion - l’m not even trying to debate you at this point.
I didn’t accuse you of it. I was speaking rhetorically to explain why I’m been ridiculing hexbears the past few days.
Most of my family that were ‘tankies’ have passed and most of the younger ones are completely disengaged politically.
I don’t know if you are talking about family in Greece itself or not but it seems your lived experiences are US-centric. Almost my tankie relatives are very much alive, and the younger gen is pretty into the same theory as well. There’s obviously changes in some social standards, but the core is remains surprisingly similar to what I’m used to.
I will also say that my lived experience doing years of encampment support in the US, I run into way more MLs (formally or informally) who I have been able to consistently work with towards shared goals
Well thing is, anarchists in 1917 were probably of the same opinion until things like the Konstadt started happening. We can literally read contemporary anarchists get completely disillusioned with their revolution once the MLs took power. And that’s before the bad times even.
You said multiple times that there’s not point talking to me and continued to insult me to third parties. What possible reason would I have to continue interacting with you?
And? It’s clear y’all have no respect to anyone not groveling for your approval or walking lockstep with your praxis so you’ll just continue to argue in bad faith. Even when I took the time discuss in good faith with someone who hasn’t been a condescending pick yet, all I got in the end is being called a “wrecker” because y’all can’t fucking accept anarchists not accepting your shit praxis.
No, you just couldn’t take “No” for an answer and became abusive instead. What’s the point mate? What’s there to discuss? Your buddies are now calling me “stormfront”. There’s nothing to achieve with arguing in good faith with hexbears, y’all are just looking for cheap gotchas to glom to.
Look dude, if you’re ever ready to get down from your cross about how people other than me associated you with when you posted a racist caricature and spent hours shitflinging with people who were calling it racist before uploading an edited version, you know where to find me and you know from the last comment I made in the one good discussion we had about what there is to discuss. Maybe you’ll realize it tomorrow, or maybe you need a few years to learn about what socialists outside of Greece are like, or maybe you’ll never get there. That’s clearly none of my business to try and help you with, but I’m not interested in enabling your tantrums further now that you’ve shown me it’s a switch you flip off and on. Good luck figuring things out.
Goddamn, spare me the condescension. Every fucking time I try to be earnest with you people. Daym!
Anyway, In the past few days I’ve gotten a pretty good reminder of what the MLs outside my home country are like. Quite sadly It reinforced pretty much everything I expected of y’all.
Man why do you all have to do the interrogation shtick? It’s really jarring to have online randos looking into one’s private life yanno?
I am Greek. Anarchists have a way less favorable impression of MLs, partly because our ml orgs were never destroyed like the American ones, so we get to see ml praxis daily.
I’m Greek too, as are a number of the anarchists I know- the KKE isn’t in power and none of the anarchists I talked to ever took time out of their day to shittalk it either.
Εγώ έχω διαφορετικές εμπειρίες. Δεν είναι οτι το οι αναρχικοί μιλάνε για το ΚΚΕ όλη την ώρα, αλλά σίγουρα δεν συνεργάζονται μαζί τους και μπορεις πολύ συχνα να δεις πως τους αντιμετωπίζουν.
I prefer to keep it so other people can read, I don’t care to flex. And yeah, I would agree, they don’t cooperate, but its certainly not directly antagonistic either.
The worst I heard was anarchists at most regard them as ineffective nerds, in particular for fucking around with parliament instead of more direct action and supporting encampments/squats. For me that’s a long way from the ‘red fash’ depictions you get about ‘authority’. One of the more cutting complaints I heard was that a group would spend more time on if its banners read as ‘ML’ or ‘ΜΛ’ to be properly decolonial instead of just going out in the street.
I don’t know who you’re talking to, or in what context, but I can assure you there’s plenty of antagonism: Here’s a classic: https://athens.indymedia.org/post/1349901/
That’s what I meant with fucking around with parliament- I don’t disagree that they’re too committed to the existing state. I have a lot of issues with the organization but it’s a product of more than just being ML - there’s a lot of historical reasons at play too and I can appreciate why they reluctant to challenge the state directly.
This is the same reason organizations I work in don’t cooperate with electorally-oriented groups either.
Dogmatism is a problem in every tendency. Same reason I push back on anarchists (or MLs) trying to start fights over political disagreements from like a hundred years ago. The problem is the capitalists with the boot on all our necks.
Mate, it’s not just the party. Half my family are tankies. I have immense and exhaustive experience with ML hypocrisy and their true thoughts about Anarchists. I also have a lot of lived experiences on this. A lot of my best friends as a young adult were in the KNE. I’ve written for KNE papers. It’s part of the reason why it’s worthless to ask me to debate my positions. It’s when people can’t understand that and want to act all sealiony and/or condescending that I turn to ridiculing them.
Y’all can believe what you want about “left-unity”. I have had both enough experience and theory to hold my positions on it.
We all know anarchists and MLs agree in theory, but when it comes to praxis, cooperation only works when it’s anarchist praxis.
Not trying to sealion - l’m not even trying to debate you at this point.
Most of my family that were ‘tankies’ have passed and most of the younger ones are completely disengaged politically.
spoiler
Also as a trans person they were way cooler about it than the more ‘traditional’ ones, one of whom was misgendering me on her deathbed.
I will also say that my lived experience doing years of encampment support in the US, I run into way more MLs (formally or informally) who I have been able to consistently work with towards shared goals. That’s why I feel obligated to point out that most of the distinction made online (in particular about hypothetical revolutions) fade away in the real world.
I didn’t accuse you of it. I was speaking rhetorically to explain why I’m been ridiculing hexbears the past few days.
I don’t know if you are talking about family in Greece itself or not but it seems your lived experiences are US-centric. Almost my tankie relatives are very much alive, and the younger gen is pretty into the same theory as well. There’s obviously changes in some social standards, but the core is remains surprisingly similar to what I’m used to.
Well thing is, anarchists in 1917 were probably of the same opinion until things like the Konstadt started happening. We can literally read contemporary anarchists get completely disillusioned with their revolution once the MLs took power. And that’s before the bad times even.
The reason I mention it is because a lot of political understanding comes from working with other people towards shared goals.
This reminds me, are you going to get back to the reply chain where we actually talked briefly?
You said multiple times that there’s not point talking to me and continued to insult me to third parties. What possible reason would I have to continue interacting with you?
It was only after that point that you gave me a real response
And? It’s clear y’all have no respect to anyone not groveling for your approval or walking lockstep with your praxis so you’ll just continue to argue in bad faith. Even when I took the time discuss in good faith with someone who hasn’t been a condescending pick yet, all I got in the end is being called a “wrecker” because y’all can’t fucking accept anarchists not accepting your shit praxis.
You weren’t groveling to me before and I was happy to discuss with you. You’re imagining characteristics that I simply don’t have
No, you just couldn’t take “No” for an answer and became abusive instead. What’s the point mate? What’s there to discuss? Your buddies are now calling me “stormfront”. There’s nothing to achieve with arguing in good faith with hexbears, y’all are just looking for cheap gotchas to glom to.
Look dude, if you’re ever ready to get down from your cross about how people other than me associated you with
when you posted a racist caricature and spent hours shitflinging with people who were calling it racist before uploading an edited version, you know where to find me and you know from the last comment I made in the one good discussion we had about what there is to discuss. Maybe you’ll realize it tomorrow, or maybe you need a few years to learn about what socialists outside of Greece are like, or maybe you’ll never get there. That’s clearly none of my business to try and help you with, but I’m not interested in enabling your tantrums further now that you’ve shown me it’s a switch you flip off and on. Good luck figuring things out.
Goddamn, spare me the condescension. Every fucking time I try to be earnest with you people. Daym!
Anyway, In the past few days I’ve gotten a pretty good reminder of what the MLs outside my home country are like. Quite sadly It reinforced pretty much everything I expected of y’all.