So we pay cops to kills us, if they’re found guilty, we also pay but if someone murders you then you’re SOL? USA baby
I mean if someone murders you ANYWHERE you’re SOL. Your family might get justice somewhere else though.
stab stab Jokes… on you… we have a robust law enforcement and judicial system… stab stab stab
I get we love this narrative on reddit/lemmy that cops are just out killing everyone. But that’s simply not true, being hyperbolic about it doesn’t help us address the actual issue - insane violent crime rates in this country. If we had a ‘normal’ amount of violent crimes, how much less police interactions would people have?
We need to clean up the PD’s, but lets not act like our country makes it easy to be a police officer.
I don’t think you read your first link, here are some quick quotes for ya
from #6 - “The most recent version of the FBI study shows no rise in the national violent crime rate between 2020 and 2021. That said, there is considerable uncertainty around the FBI’s figures for 2021 because of a transition to a new data collection system. The FBI reported an increase in the violent crime rate between 2019 and 2020, when the previous data collection system was still in place.”
Comparing 2022 to 2021 doesn’t really matter, what about a 5 year trend? just because 2020 and 2021 we had a higher rate of crime, that doesn’t mean we only look at 2022 potentially having lower crime rates.
Especially when paired with this quote further down on #8 - " One important consideration is that official statistics for 2022 are not yet available. Voters might be reacting to an increase in violent crime that has yet to surface in annual government reports. Some estimates from nongovernmental organizations do point to an increase in certain kinds of violent crime in 2022: For example, the Major Cities Chiefs Association, an organization of police executives representing large cities, estimates that robberies and aggravated assaults increased in the first six months of this year compared with the same period the year before."
#7 is also telling “While the total U.S. violent crime rate does not appear to have increased recently, the most serious form of violent crime – murder – has risen significantly during the pandemic. Both the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported a roughly 30% increase in the U.S. murder rate between 2019 and 2020.”
and I know you didn’t read the second link, because it doesn’t show an increase of police deaths by year. It shows years from the 1980-2019. It analyses unreported deaths from police. Not at all what I think you’re trying to discuss.
My guy, I’m not sure that you read either link despite quoting them. You skipped over #5, huh? Or #6, that despite a surge the murder rate is still below previous highs? Hell, they even say that outright in #7.
You’re right that I didn’t specifically link the second article to discuss underreported deaths. I did it because Figure 2 shows NVSS data that I could not otherwise locate easily, which also shows the trend I suggested. It can be difficult, I’m sure for reasons you understand, to source figures for police violence from rigorous sources… Especially when, as the article I linked notes, there are numerous issues with official sources. Here’s UIC’s page anyway, though.
But sure, yeah, thanks for your helpful illumination.
You skipped over #5, huh? Or #6, that despite a surge the murder rate is
I actually didn’t! #5 - “Annual government surveys from the Bureau of Justice Statistics show no recent increase in the U.S. violent crime rate.” If you wanted me to look and note how this is not at all your claim, I’ll do it. I just thought it was redundant. So that proves your statement false again.
#6 - Is an estimate based on a survey that they claim showed no increase. Once again, against what you said of decreasing. Here’s a useful quote for you: “It relies on data voluntarily submitted by thousands of local police departments, but many law enforcement agencies do not participate. In the latest FBI study, around four-in-ten police departments”
Your argument of violent crime going down is incorrect based on this survey taken of police departments that only really 40% shared. I don’t think that’s the smoking gun you want, especially because it’d be friendly fire.
#7 - if you have an issue with what I quoted, please show me what goes against my argument, and for yours.
Regarding the second link, I understand, I hate when I am looking for something specific, that should be easy to find (I also looked up homicides by police over years and couldn’t find much) - but I still, it does look like rates, specifically over the last 5 years have been on an upward tend. That’s worrying, I’m curious the analysis on this.
I see you do not understand that by “down,” I am speaking historically and not arbitrarily “in the last three years.” The graph with #5 goes back to 1993. The downward trend is clear. I’m not sure if you’re being pedantic or deliberately obtuse.
Besides which, the claim of “insane violent crime rates” is your contention, and you have provided no definition or source for this notion.
I don’t feel the need to keep engaging with you on this subject. You seem to take pride in missing the forest for the trees. Have a nice night.
I see you do not understand that by “down,” I am speaking historically and not arbitrarily “in the last three years.”
Oh, so you’re comparing this last year to…what? You need some sort of finite time period, no? Or are you comparing rates to as long as humanity existed? To be fair, adam and eve, there was no violent crimes. First one was Cain and Able, so you’d be wrong in that instance too.
The graph with #5 goes back to the 1980s. The downward trend is clear. I’m not sure if you’re being pedantic or deliberately obtuse.
Well if you’re using that as your gauge, then police killings are also down, see figure 3, the same figure you refereed me to before. Which is it? Do you want to compare police killings from 2015 to now and violent crime rates over the last 100 years? That doesn’t make sense, it seems like you’re the one arbitrarily choosing time periods.
You’re the one comparing these two, you gotta be consistent. You can’t change your metrics simply because you don’t like they way they turn out.
I don’t feel the need to keep engaging with you on this subject. You seem to take pride in missing the forest for the trees. Have a nice night.
That’s a bummer, our last messages we were a bit closer to understanding, but then this message it seemed you lost all direction of your argument. Or maybe because you realized that you were arguing a point that contradicts itself if you have to be consistent.
How does this compare!?
For major cities in the Midwest?
Pretty middle of the road.
The reason people say “most murders are by a spouse/partner” is because those are the easiest to solve, and cops are pretty shit at solving crimes.
It’s waaaaay more accurate to say “most murders who are caught killed a spouse/partner”
Hard to say since news organizations had to sue this department to get these numbers and pretty much every department is always trying to sweep dirt under the rug like that
According to the FBI, around 51% of murders in 2021 were solved. So this is just a bit lower than the federal numbers. The number doesn’t shock me, I think solving a murder is very hard and technology can only offer so much more info. Proving murder beyond a doubt is also very difficult, like OJ. We all know he killed his ex wife and her boyfriend, but prosecutors couldn’t prove he did it within the court context. An “unsolved” murder that has a solution.
That’s 51% in one year though, in STL if they only did 60% over the 6 year span of 2017 to 2023 then they haven’t hit 51% in any given year, unless they just completely stopped post covid.
I live in stl and can say it feels like they did completely stop post covid but I don’t know for sure, I know they had a “silent protest” for a while while Kim Gardner was in office but that’s over now that she’s resigned as circuit attorney and someone competent took over.
How many of those homicides were commited by police officers?
Well theoretically 100% of the unsolved could be, they haven’t solved them after all.
If you had to guess right now, how many would you guess? since 2017 - so we’ll say over a 5 year span, what’s the total?
If someone isn’t standing there with a literal smoking gun over the body they probably have no clue.
So if you want a better than a coin flip chance at getting away with murder, apparently you should look into St Louis.
Super shocked. Cops are so good at their jobs how could this happen? /s
What boggles my mind more than that is that the homicide rate for St. Louis is 87.83 per 100.000 inhabitants… For comparison, the homicide rate for Osaka (highest im Japan) is 0.8…
Japan has on the order of a 99.9% conviction rate, which a number of people would say is problematic itself.
I’ve read that Japan police often rule things a suicide if they don’t immediately think they know they can convict someone in order to keep their solve rate above 99%
Even if it’s obviously a murder
There are many unresolved cases in Japan and as a democratic country, I strongly doubt this internet conspiracy is reasonable.
Japan doesn’t have guns freely available for purchase from gun shops every couple miles do they? I live in St. Louis and drive past half a dozen gun stores and ranges on my way to work daily, I can stop in every single one of those every day and buy a gun and ammo if I so desired. 20 minutes and a couple hundred could see me easily capable of wiping groups of people off the earth, and the couple hundred dollars is easy to get because the gun stores are always conveniently placed near payday loan shops and pawn shops
'murica
I had to read that a few times before I realized you didn’t mean 87.83% homicide rate.
You’re thinking of the village of Midsomer from the show Midsomer Murders.
Hey cops, how are you doing?
I heard the numbers were way worse, so this looks good to me.
