In a recent call on the national question someone asked about how some people say the United States is not a legitimate nation because of settler colonialism and he said he knew it was obviously wrong but was wondering what their mistake is. Someone claimed that “landback” people never have a clear policy proposal. And I was shocked and hoping it could be rectified. Next was said in response that it’s true as Stalin said that the US became a nation when it left Britain because it was a specific group of settlers, but it expanded through brutal means and that should be rectified. After a while into the call eventually the issue was returned to. The fact that there are still many indigenous tribes within the US and therefore should be given their original land and sovereignty was said. In response people said that it would make them to isolated from the union and they have the option to have that sovereignty from their reservations, but obviously choose not to, which is absurd because these states should also get lots of aid and solidarity from other socialist areas (as this would be after the revolution and it would be different to now). I thought it was bad enough but after it was said that primarily settler colonial nations need their histories rectified they said that they don’t even oppose the existence of Israel anymore. Then the gensec said that people are ignoring “dialectics” that things change. People move in and out of territory- (though usually not by genocide)- and therefore the US is no different and we should not try to change that. “All the slaves are dead.”-Though people are still affected by that history, native Americans are still under special oppression by the state, and in the case of Palestine people are still alive that can remember having their land stolen and have physical evidence that it belonged to them- according to another “some Marxists read Marx and Lenin and come to the opposite conclusions” suggesting those bad Marxists are the “land-back” people.
Whoever warned me that they were PatSocs are right. What should I do? Is there hope of convincing them? Should I leave ASAP? Should I wait? It’s been mentioned here that we should follow the leadership of BIPOC people, does anyone know the modern equivalent of the White Panthers or AIM I should join?
Edit: I forget to mention the made the point that refugees are coming here now and if we do landback there would be refugees from here-like, sure people’d have to move but we’ve got space, and aren’t our birth rates declining anyway? It’s not like there’ll be an anti-white trail of tears. With socialist central planning we can allocate resources to support evicted settlers. Also, there’s a whole lotta land that’s privately owned that could easily be expropriated for indigenous people along with national parks which they’d manage far better. I think they also suggested that we need to integrate Native Americans as much as possible because their sovereignty won’t help. Finally, apparently they would’ve supported the new Afrikan struggle in the 30’s, but since I guess they don’t think you can fight fascism and racism and colonialism at the same time.
@Tankeke@lemmygrad.ml since I suggested them to you, you should be aware of this.
Thanks for letting me know. I can’t stand ANY PatSocs, look at PCF, they are getting rubbish because PatSocs crap.
I’m not USian but from my understanding of US leftist parties, I don’t understand why anyone would join these parties when PSL exists, they seem to be the only decent party there. Everyone else either seems like Larpers or ops, it’s probably being a bit reductionist, but
I need to see if they’re active in my area. All I’ve heard against them is flea war accusing them of being opps, though I must admit I’ve yet to read the article.
Who is flea war? I have never heard of them.
A substack that has writings about anti-imperialism and psyops
I don’t really have the patience to trudge through those confusingly organized articles right now, but just skimming through, they’re accusing almost all self-proclaimed socialist organizations and outlets I’ve ever heard of in Amerika of being CIA psyops
If what they say is accurate, there is essentially not a single leftist organization in the US that isn’t involved with the CIA doing contemporary cointelpro in some form, which if is true is pretty fucking terrible for every comrade in the US and means that basically everything any of the five organizations have touched is tainted by the CIA which is a metric fuck done of leftist organizing that is rotten. For such a dramatic claim, the evidence needs to be air tight and the presentation needs to be a fuck ton better than it is, I read through everything and I came out more confused than knowledgeable. The organization is atrocious and it looks like a red string conspiracy board. I’m not saying it isn’t true, but someone who knows how to present and put together information needs to work with them.
I’m interested to see their evidence, but they do seem a little paranoid.
I would be interested to hear from someone smarter than me who’s looked at their claims in detail
Oh no. Not Black Alliance for Peace. If they’re implicated in this whole web too, I just lost the single last news outlet I had faith in bc Black Agenda Report is probs the one non-ADOS-ish, non-Democrat Black news outlet I’ve found…
What does ados mean?
“American Descendants of Slaves”; it sounds benign until you find out it’s some Tariq Nasheed griftery, tailor-made to divide the Black community farther than we already are by colorism debates and the ever-ongoing twitter warring between these scrub-assed Black manosphere types and the marginal fringe ‘divestor’ movement. Wrecker shit from someone who ain’t even left, p much.
Their whole angle is “reparations, but only for people who can verifiably track their lineage back through slavery” while totally ignoring that the vast majority of us in that position in the first place have our genealogical data along those lines straight up disappear by 1890.
I’m somewhat wary of PSL because the infamous abuse scandal happened in the branch of the city I live near. From what I’ve read of it, while I can’t say for certain whether the abuse charge is accurate, the way the leadership handled the incident was pretty bad regardless of the veracity of the accusation.
This is the account of the accuser of the misconduct.
WARNING: the following 2 links are google docs links.
Here is a document of some members’s criticisms of how the org handled the Philly situation.
@Elara@lemmygrad.ml you’re pretty good with this kind of stuff. Do you know a way to get the content of a google doc without needing to sign into Google?
Do you see any evidence they have changed or corrected their views before? Considering you are queer, have you felt you’ve been treated unfairly?
If you don’t have sufficient experience with the party, I’d say to persist criticizing them internally and fighting for a more correct political line until they either expell you or you realize there’s no use in correcting them. Only practice can tell
They’re the least queerphobic PatSocs I’ve seen. However I feel this specific line is difficult to fight beyond dming everyone a revleft podcast or keeping repeating points that will get shut down. It’s hard to convince settlers that other groups’ need to be prioritized at the risk of their own, but perhaps it’s better not to go down without a fight.
Is PCUSA the older one or is that CPUSA?
The latter. PCUSA split from CPUSA in like 2014. I forget why.
leave, their line is a bourgeois one
I figured that out. They’re basically larpers who have a somewhat pro-landback pamphlet, but in person hate anyone who would say anything pro-landback. They think they’re the perfect Leninist vanguard, but they have no plan to do anything except a couple protests. They always talk about their specific definition of fascism and why the US is not that, when it’s worse for a lot of people, just not them yet. I left after five months (the specific spark for leaving was a reactionary trot in their “mass” org, who I knew would throw any principled people off, and shined light on the poor strategy of PCUSA in general).
