I primarily ask this, because for a large part of my life, I have found it hard to build meaningful friendships with neurotypicals. I don’t know any autistic people in real life, but wonder if it would be easier for me to build friendships with them?
Or maybe this has more to do with general struggles of being autistic, rather than how alike I am to others. However, I always find neurotypicals don’t really go deep in conversation, but they enjoy small talk. Yet, I’m the complete opposite.
What has been your experience?
Do they call themselves/identify as neurotypicals, or are you just calling them that?
It might be that you are assuming typicality when they have communication requirements you are failing to account for, making it hard for them.
They might enjoy deep conversation rather than small talk but find it difficult to engage with your approach. Maybe give them a little time and let them feel comfortable in the process rather than pressuring them?
You have some good points. I have assumed them as neurotypicals, for one reason or another.
Maybe, I could try being mindful of everyone’s communication style. Trying different things, and seeing what works best for each person.
I don’t think I consciously pressure them. I generally don’t initiate deep conversation, as it has not always gone well in the past, so now I just mask with small talk, despite hating it. But I will try to be mindful of my approach nonetheless.
I’m not sure it is useful to label anyone as neurotypical. It’s a point on a scale, a notional best fit, and not a reality. Sure, some people are closer to that point, but I find everyone has their own diversity.
You suggest trying different things, and I think that’s a brilliant stalrategy.
My go-to is to ask people what they are really into. I ask it pretty bluntly.
That said, some folk, no matter what, just might not have much to say, so don’t be hard on yourself.
Also, what are you really into?
You’re perspective is good, because it’s challenging my own perspective in a constructive way.
I’m not sure it is useful to label anyone as neurotypical. It’s a point on a scale, a notional best fit, and not a reality. Sure, some people are closer to that point, but I find everyone has their own diversity.
That might be the black and white thinking coming out. But it may also be the point I’m at. I’m frustrated, because I have a hard time connecting with others, and I’m trying to figure out why that is, and what I can do, to change that.
That said, some folk, no matter what, just might not have much to say, so don’t be hard on yourself.
Yeah okay. I have a tendency towards self-criticism.
Also, what are you really into?
I like certain niche anime’s, like Serial Experiments Lain, Ergo Proxy, and some not so niche but are interesting conceptually, like Psycho-Pass. I seem to find Japan interesting, despite the cultural issues they appear to have. I like psychology and philosophy, especially around trying to be the best person reasonably possible, and trying to let go, of what one cannot control. To challenge my unhealthy behaviours and thoughts, and guide myself to a more healthy outlook. I also seem to find anything that relates to understanding myself interesting, because I have struggled to understand why I always struggled, when others appeared not to. Even if what I saw of others was just a facade? I care a lot about trying to have a good quality of life, and building meaningful relationships with others. Though, I find the latter very difficult.
What are you really into?
I’m also enjoying this conversation because it is helping me think through ways of connecting and communicating.
You seem to work on self improvent in lots of different ways, and that is really commendable. Especially trying to understand yourself and the world through philosophy and psychology.
Anime! I’m afraid I only know a little… when I was younger I watched Fist of The North Star, and now I sit with my niece as she watches My Hero Academia. I’m very much a fan of studio Ghibli too. Are there any that you would recommend to someone like me? Casual and easier to get into?
I’ve always wanted to see japan, their culture is complex and fascinating. Their food is delicious.
I do read quite a lot of Japanese literature though. Have you ever encountered Kobo Abe? He’s a writer, musician and artist. He Wrote a book called ‘The Box Man’. It’s a bout a man who one day moves into a large cardboard box and refuses to leave it. It is a little surreal, and funny and bleak at the same time. I’m not sure a Western writer could have pulled off such a work. It’s also fairly short and there are good translations out there.
It really resonated with me when I found it hard to relate to the world, particularly socially.
As for what I’m into, I really, really geek out over modern art. I can’t explain it, but I just find so much joy in looking at paintings and sculptures. I can spend hours alone with them and not really feel alone, or I can see things that I’ve never thought of. Some of it repulses me, but I’ve learnt to find enjoyment in that too. It’s as deep as I want it to be. Sometimes it can be surface, “that’s pretty” or sometimes it can be conceptual and philosophical.
For what it’s worth, you come across as a a very clear and friendly communicator. I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply to me too. Thank you.
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I find other neuro-divergents a complete mixed bag to talk to, so basically the same as everyone else. If we’re sympatico it’s great, otherwise it can be all long awkward silences or talking past each other.
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This reminds me of my own experiences. Overlapping interests are 10/10 for me.
I tend to get much more comfortable enough to talk with other NDs than I do with NTs. Other NDs tend to also share many of the same interests so we have more to talk about anyway. But I mean… there are also plenty of others I’ve met with severe ADHD/low functioning autism and/or no coping skills that are just frustrating or uncomfortable to talk with for various reasons. I’d still take one of them over most NTs, tho.
NT here, find it easiet to talk to other NT people. I have to shift my thinking to communicate with NB people on their level. With other NT people it’s automatic.
Not sure why this got so many down votes. But interesting getting a perspective from the other side.
It looks like it got only one downvote but maybe my instance isn’t federating with the downvoters.
ND 100%
Doesn’t matter. I’ve had bad experiences with both ND and NT.
It has gotten to a point that if we only just met, but instantly connect and get into an interesting conversation then i can just assume your neurodivergent. There has yet to be a case where i am proven wrong. I often just plain tell them “btw do you know what neurodivergent is after 2-3 encounters.
Some other people i still cant communicate properly with every years of working with them. There usually the most normal seeming people around.
Generally agree. My wife is neurotypical, but she spends more time than I do reading how to communicate with and help me. Otherwise, I tend to find most neurotypical people too easily made uncomfortable by me just existing. I have had people walk up to me on the street at an event and tell me I was creeping their friends out because of my half-smile. I was totally taken aback. I was literally just sitting on the curb in Savannah listening to music, not even paying attention to the people.
I definitely automatically drift towards ND people, basically every friend I’ve had was some flavour of ND. However there are also ND people who are just as difficult for me to get along with as NTs. To be blunt here, really stubborn/argumentative people and super high energy ADHD people come to mind. Like, even if the basic parts of our communication style are the same, I still can’t keep up with some peoples’ energy levels and don’t enjoy confrontation or debate. I still subconciously find myself choosing them over NTs though.
My closest friend is also autistic, but most of my friends are NT. Small talk is just the price of entry with a lot of people. Lemme give you an alternate definition of small talk: “Talk about safe bullshit unlikely to offend or start a fight until you know the other person well enough to expose your opinions and beliefs to possible criticism or rejection.” The substance of the conversation is meaningless. Smalltalk is about gaging a person’s body language and temper and reactions and all other manner of nonverbal signal. It’s a lot easier if you go in with the understanding that the actual words are meaningless and you barely have to pay attention to them
Yeah, that sounds exhausting. Can we skip that
Depends on the person and how well I know them. I can converse with my mom (likely has ADHD) effectively enough. Though feels like I just slip into an ‘interaction mask’ to do 90% of interactions.
For the most part I can only interact with people via something we’re doing together. Which is mostly just video games. Even that feels superficial, but that’s how it be! Or so I tell mysel.
i was so confused until i saw what sub this was bless your poor soul. (pats head) 😇
Genuinely confused, but thanks I guess?
As a support provider (think well-trained best friend), I have been working with people with typical and divergent styles for a long time, and have developed friendships at many different levels and in many different ways with the people I work with. We have the luxury of spending significant amounts of time together over several years. I get the chance to really KNOW the people I work with. If there is one thing I wish everyone, typical or not, understood, is that EVERYONE has social anxiety of some sort, to some degree. They have different ways to navigate that anxiety, with different results. I find that the key to being with other people is to be able to recognize their anxiety adaptive strategies, and to be able to tell, in the moment, how they are feeling, as evidence by their non verbals. For what it’s worth, I hope anyone here can take some of what I have said and put it to use to develop success in their own social endeavors, or simply navigating everyday life. It is a life-time work to learn, and there is always something more to add to the body of one’s personal knowledge and understanding, but the key point of understanding that anxiety is an overriding and underlying process that is ALWAYS present in social interactions can be a helpful starting point. This is a subject that is dear to me, so if anyone has any interest in talking more about this, please respond! 🙂
Interesting getting a different perspective. I guess as humans we aren’t all so different. Maybe we are in neurotypes, but we may all be more similar than I expected.
I don’t know any autistic people in real life, but wonder if it would be easier for me to build friendships with them?
You might find it easier to talk to them, but I don’t know about building a friendship.
I have found it hard to build meaningful friendships with neurotypicals
I always find neurotypicals don’t really go deep in conversation
Those things are related.
they enjoy small talk
Eh, a lot of people engage in small talk that do not enjoy it.
Maybe I’m being too black and white in my thinking.
I don’t know. Socializing is difficult. Society has a different set of rules, guidelines, and conventions for different situations, and different people have different opinions about which ones are most important. Everything is gray. When does an acquaintance become a friend? I don’t know. There aren’t hard and fast rules about any of it. So many people socialize based on how they feel, and that’s hard for me to do sometimes.
I try to be upfront with people about being bad at picking up on social cues. I will tell people that I’m not trying to be rude if you try to make small talk and I’m not very responsive or engaging, I just suck at making small talk. etc.
I’m with you on it being so confusing. That’s constantly my experience with socialisation. Maybe I could try being upfront as well. I’m still not very open about being autistic. Although, I don’t necessarily need to give that level of detail in my explanation. Sometimes, I just get tired of trying.
Seems like a lot of my friends A/ND, so seem to attract/be attracted to them for my friends.
It took me about 3 decades to fully realize that the reason that the majority of the men I dated (and the friends I had) had ADHD is because I, also, have ADHD.
My husband is undiagnosed but he has a lot of ADHD and Autistic traits. He isn’t the type of person whose interested in a diagnosis
I find it very frustrating having a life partner who doesn’t want to investigate their ND, especially the executive dysfunction. There are so many resources that would make both our lives easier!
Same, but I’ve learned how to work around his quirks. The start of our marriage was very lonely, because he has a difficult time with anything romance. He doesn’t need physical affection, or kind words, or encouragement and thus doesn’t believe he needs to give me any of those things, either. However, if I want to hug him he’s fine with it. If I ask if I did a good job, he’ll say I did (usually) and if I need encouragement I talk to my friends.
We mostly bond by gaming :)
