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  • goat@sh.itjust.worksM
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    2 days ago

    This is you claiming all citizens are military targets

    Second, Israel has what’s called a Schrodinger’s civilian, in that every citizen has undergone military training so in this case I think the settlers count as military.

      • goat@sh.itjust.worksM
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        2 days ago

        You’re saying civilians count as military targets because they may have undergone military training, yes.

        • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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          2 days ago

          Did I claim that they are all inherently and incorrigibly evil?

          Edit: Ukraine is quite clearly in the right in this situation, and they are justified in using whatever military means possible to achieve the following two war goals:

          1. Retaking all territory lost to the Russian invasion
          2. Removing, by whichever means is convenient, all combatants affiliated with Russia from said territory.

          And yes, civilians (Russia also has a draft, but it’s a bit easier to cheat I think) will die in the process. It’s war. Shit happens.

          The only way Ukraine can become the bad guy in this situation is if they meet both of the above conditions, and then seek to continue an offensive war. This becomes a lot easier when you see your enemy not as a simple enemy, but as literally demonic evil. Which is what “orc” refers to both in fantasy and history. Soldiers, those directly involved in the war effort, I get that. Still not a fan, but that’s at least a direct enemy. Every Russian ever? No.

          edit2: You will note that this is what Israel did. They removed Hamas from within their territory (with some details, Assume gaza/west bank ain’t theirs), and then went on an offensive war to grab land. You will also note the sheer amount of dehumanizing rhetoric pointed at Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria that allowed this to happen.

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksM
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            2 days ago

            Did I claim that they are all inherently and incorrigibly evil?

            no you claimed that civilians count as military targets if they have undergone military training

            • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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              2 days ago

              Oh, well then that’s just entirely irrelevant to the topic of bigotry, isn’t it?

              That’s just you digging through my entire posting history looking for reasons. Classy. You happen to wear meta/perv glasses? You’re giving me that vibe.

              • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
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                11 hours ago

                He caught you being a hypocrite my guy. The Schrodinger’s civilian line is straight up bigotry. You’re judging Israelis by a different criteria than other human beings and dehumanizing them in order to make the argument that it is acceptable to target civilians as long as they are Israeli. You’re not willing to grant Israelis the same rights that you would grant to the civilian population of any other country, such as Russia; i.e., you are bigoted towards Israelis.

                • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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                  8 hours ago

                  What part of that phrase is a specifically anti-israeli slur that implies all Israelis are inherently evil?

                  Because Russia also has a draft. Schrodinger’s civilian applied to their little green men before 2022, too.

                  • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works
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                    7 hours ago

                    Stating that civilians should be acceptable as military targets is worse than calling them evil lol

                    Call me evil all you want, but at least give me the courtesy of not trying to kill me if I don’t have any military relevance. Even the Nazis received that courtesy