Sounds like Atheism, like all belief systems, empowered an asshole with self-righteous validation. Even if you bet on the right horse, it doesn’t mean everything you do is automatically justified; empathy is a higher order law.
empathy is a higher order law.
Anon forgot that having an asshole doesn’t mean you should regularly act like one.
Atheism isn’t really a belief system by itself. It can refer to a lot of things, including positive atheism (the claim that there is not/cannot be a god/supernatural entity), negative atheism (the lack of belief in a deity due to lack of evidence), the absence of religion and many other things. Militant atheism, on the other hand, definitely counts and is susceptible to all the failings you mentioned.
It’s not called militant atheism, you’re describing anti-theism. I’ve never heard of atheism claiming definitively that there are no deities or higher powers either, just that since there’s no evidence the claims aren’t worth consideration and can be dismissed as nonsense.
I believe what you are describing is Agnosticism, which questions the existence of God but doesn’t claim there isn’t one either.
Atheism afaik does claim that something like a God can’t/doesn’t exist (or Anti-theism).
Even if you bet on the right horse
As if there were any other way to hold any kind of opinion about what could be beyond the bounds of reality as we know it, but to just bet on shit we don’t know the first thing about. It’s all just bets. Nobody knows and everyone is pretending that not only are they right but their rightness is of a superior quality than the claimed rightness of others. They’re still all just blind morons betting on horse races that are fixed by minds far closer to the truth and in control of it than they.
The people standing in the park trying to tease out which horse is fastest from previous observations have the advantage over anyone just going with their feelings.
They especially have the advantage over the people standing outside who are pretending there are magical centaurs in the park that grant wishes if you’re not gay.
The people standing in the park trying to tease out which horse is fastest from previous observations have the advantage over anyone just going with their feelings.
No, the metaphor breaks down at that point because there is no peeking over the wall, there is no listening to talk from inside the stables. We’re not even at the track. It’s all shit that is beyond observation, beyond calculation, beyond any kind of verification or validation. It is a thing nobody has any good reason to act like they know anything about in a scientific capacity.
You must be one of the people outside the track afraid to look because you can’t bear the thought of not having your very own wish-granting centaur.
Superstitious nonsense.
Atheism, like all belief systems
You really should educate yourself a little bit more to get to the baseline level.
Even if you bet on the right horse, it doesn’t mean everything you do is automatically justified; empathy is a higher order law.
Oh, nevermind, you’re one of those feel-good nonsense wafflers.
Atheism is as much a belief as bald is a haircut. Technically slightly different, but makes sense to throw into the same box.
Learning that being right doesn’t make you not an arsehole is a lesson too many of us had to learn the hard way.
The satanic temple’s 7th tenet sums it up quite well.
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Atheism is as much a belief as bald is a haircut. Technically slightly different
Only theists try to bring atheism down to a belief system.
By that logic: absence of being on fire is kind of being on fire. Not drowning is a specific type of drowning. Vacuum is a particular form of atmosphere. Being an idiot is just a form of wisdom.
Atheism does require belief. Even if it’s only in the axioms of physics.
As per my analogy, bald is not a haircut, but an absence of hair. You would be hard pressed to find a bald person who complained about it being lumped in with haircuts in a form.
Recognising the limits to our own knowledge is an important part of finding the truth.
Oh and the options “on fire” and “not on fire” obviously belong in the same grouping, even if they are different things.
Atheism does require belief. Even if it’s only in the axioms of physics.
Interestingly, a diet poor in Omega-3 leads to inability to distinguish between belief and fact.
Please go on such a diet.
Now you’re confusing atheism - lack of belief in deities - with general knowledge of science, and then confusing general knowledge of science with belief. You are also confusing empirical evidence with faih.
Go eat fish.
I’m scientifically trained (physics specifically), I’m also an atheist myself. I believe, based on a preponderance of evidence, that no creator being exists. The exception possibly being the simulation hypothesis. However, without specific evidence of that, the chances are extremely slim so I default to the null, aka atheism.
Interestingly, science has very few “facts”. Facts are mostly a thing of mathematics , which can create rigorous proofs. There is a lot of evidence in science, along with predictions and theories, but few facts.
E.g. I don’t know, for a fact, that the sun will rise in 1 year’s time. The evidence says it’s practically a certainty, but it is not a true “fact”. It’s a prediction based on an absurdly large evidence base.
So technically, in math we refer to the core “ideas” from which all mathematics is derived as axioms, which we hold to be true until found to be false/self-contradictory/redundant. We arrive at these by describing the world, so it’s more like - “if you agree to the following statements, then you must also agree to the entirety of mathematics”.
Continuing with the occupational pedantry, I think there is some confusion lies in conflating “fact (repeatable observation)” with “fact (tested causal mechanism)”
So, kinda not really, but kinda? This is more philosophy but i think the idea is that as long as we can ensure that “there exists a statement for which there is a piece of evidence that can prove a statement false, but no evidence exists after significant testing and experiments” IRL we can use this interchangeably with “I have found a causal mechanism that causes this phenomena and can replicate the effect while controlling for confounding variables”. Statements under both are true and correct to the best of our understanding.
Did you burn down your family‘s Christmas tree too?
I used to be big on atheism but I do think it is also a belief system now. I realized that when a christian friend asked me “if we witnessed something that is indisputably an act of God, would you still believe he doesn’t exist ?”
So, anyway, I say I’m agnostic and that I really dislike organized religion now.
“If you saw a pig with wings soaring trough the skies, would you still believe pigs couldn’t fly?” Impecable logic, no notes.
Do rocket propelled pigs without wings count as flying?
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Anon blames Atheism for being a pos
Very anon of him, tbf
That’s very true, we never believed in Christmas/religion but never spoiled/ruined it for others, it was their enjoyment.
Granted when we have a kid, we don’t think we’ll be telling them that “Santa is just a famous character of Christmas, and some people have fun believing he’s real, so don’t ruin their fun either” or something like that. Still have plenty of years to think of how to word it better lol :P
Honestly, I think i will “lie” about Santa. Simply because it doesn’t really matter and it is fun for them.
Yeah, its pretty obvious peoppe are lying anout Santa once you realize the North Pole has no land.
Santa clearly is from the South Pole.
Pretty genius actually, getting people to look for him on the opposite side of the planet.
TIL the north pole has no land
It doesn’t have land, but it does have ice. People have walked to it from Canada.
Something to consider: do you want to normalize lying to your kid? I realize that’s an antagonistic way to phrase it, but that’s pretty much what’s happening
This is such a boring thing that people say all the time.
Lying is normal. You should be lying. Lying isn’t morally wrong if it is not done for morally wrong reasons. My child should be lying to me. I should be lying to my child.
And my children will understand the difference between lying to e.g. prevent a surprise to be ruined and lying to avoid facing consequences.
It is such a black and white thinking. It is so boring too. I will teach my children violence because 1 day, they might need it too.
And sidenote: e.g. telling your child that they can “trust” the security or the police if they get lost in a large crowd, is a lie. But one that is true enough that the child is safer with them than alone in a crowd. Telling your child that e.g. a electrical signal is travelling from the tv station through a wire to your tv, would be a lie if there is some fiber cables somewhere between them, or a satellite connection. Yes, simplifications are lying. We will lie anyway to enable them to navigate the far too complex world and slowly learn about the real underlying complexities.
And obviously, there is a difference between making them write letters to Santa and telling them Santa brings gifts for Christmas.
This is such a boring thing that people say all the time.
What a boring response to an argument.
What argument? You parroted an question. That you think you made an argument, highlights that you parroted the question. Even if you want to understand the question as an argument, a basic inspection of the implied premise that lying is bad, is enough to dismiss the argument as lazy and surface-level.
If you don’t like it when people call your output boring, say something worthwhile.
Nothing in life is black and white, we do agree on that, but when our child comes to ask who should they trust, we would say: any social worker such as a police officer, fireman, medic, social worker, anyone you can find. If you can’t find anyone then go to a big store and tell them your lost or need help. Overall would make sure they remover our number or at least where we live (on a map) similar to how our dad was with us.
As for the little things, well they’re going to ask you a lot of questions!! And the joy is to help guide them to an answer, help them discover a solution, make it fun for them to learn and discover!
Do you have satellite TV/antenna? Then look up and research and read all about it with them! Show them what an satellite attena/normal attena looks like and point to the satellites above among the stars! Look up the satellites, there are public maps, make a weekend trip to the local science center/museum and they might even have a satellite on display, or better yet more fantastic things for them to ask questions!
If you have wired tv, the same process! Talk about how light works and how we found ways to make glass send signals! How those signals are sent and more and more! They’ll get more and more curious about the world and its wonders and want to learn more and more about it!
Shrugging it off and giving an half assed answer imo isn’t lying, it’s neglecting the question and their curiosity. We want our child to ask as many questions- more than we can answer!! Make them curious to their fingertips and go to the library with us and read all the books they can ever want. Grow up curious hungry for answers, and show them how wonderful our world is!
I agree with you. My point is simply that I will “lie” to them in some ways. I have to lie to them that social workers are “safe” to help them to find us while knowing that dangerous people would seek out these jobs. And I will have to make it seem safer as it is because a young child is unable to understand the concept of likelihood. And I want them to start talking to a stranger (e.g. the policeman), they need the confidence that it is safe.
Eventually, they will understand that we are simplying things when we taught them about the world.
In both cases, I don’t think a child will feel like we were lying them. Just like I didn’t feel lied to.
“Normalizing lying” is just a silly critic.
I am opposed to making them write Santa a letter or making them “meet” Santa. As i think there is a difference between
- telling them about the concept
- letting them watch a christmas movies
- maybe telling them that Santa comes when they go to bed
And making them interact with “santa”.
That is my line. I am not saying, it is better or worse than yours or theirs. But that discussion is on a different level than “Normalizing lying”.
Granted when we have a kid, we don’t think we’ll be telling them that “Santa is just a famous character of Christmas, and some people have fun believing he’s real, so don’t ruin their fun either”
Sorry if I’m misreading this, but personally I don’t see a problem in telling your own kids that Santa isn’t real.
You can still give gifts if you want, and having them be addressed from people you care about makes it more meaningful tbh. Plus, it’s kinda fucked up to normalize lying to your kids
I grew up very poor. My mother made it clear that Santa wasn’t real, because there’s no way she’s giving another old white man undue credit.
Yes, we also fund it very fucked up to lie to a kid about how some random ass guy is stalking your every move to determine if your a good or bad person and thats the determination if having presents or nothing at all.
However, its not our place to tell other parent’s kids that Santa isn’t real, and telling our kid its just a popular character would be not only the truth but also easier for them to explain. Like a mascot of some sort yk?
I never got the talk about Santa. I think my parents just assumed that I was intelligent enough to be able to work it out on my own, which I was. I’m sure at some point I did believe in Santa but I can’t remember ever believing, I knew it was just my dad, but I got presents so I didn’t care.
Kids can be quite pragmatic.
Fair, our parents kinda pushed us to believe, but we never believed it in the first place.
My dad beat the shit out of me
I don’t think it was so much about religion or ruining it for others.
Yeah, more than likely a very religious/abusive household.
To their credit, they’re well aware they were being a turd.
I get it, I too had an angsty teenage atheist phase (minus the abuse and arson), took a while and the folks just stopped trying to get me up for church. This is why most religions have a “coming of age” event where you are recognized as an adult and choose to stay with the group. I would guess most parents dont know how to react when their kid makes that decision for themselves before then…
chocolate doesnt grow on trees
bruh
I was gonna say, it literally does lmao
This had me thinking of why the english language uses cocoa. Obviously it is cacao, most other languages use the real name as well. One of those “too hard to pronounce” situations? Habit from referring to the beans? Though that second option doesnt really answer the question, why cocoa and not cacao 🫠
Raw ingredients aren’t the final product. Cows don’t produce cheese.
I just pictured milking string cheese out of an udder, and so you have to suffer too.
Mmmmm straight from the tap into my mouth
If you shake the cow before milking it does!
i’m pretty sure that would make butter, not cheese
It doesn’t. This is what grows on trees.
Great thing about atheism Anon, no one made ha do that shit but you, and you get to take full responsibility for your actions without the cop-out of “demonic possession”. Take that beating with pride knowing that you posses radical freedom.
He’s now a big cringe retard, as proven by his telling of the story.
Anon learns the hard way that for most families, Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity especially when kids are involved.
What’s annoying about religious people discussing atheism(which happens every time it’s brought up) is that they invariably assume atheists also have religious thinking. Like I must go to atheist church every Sunday to convince myself there’s no god. It betrays either a lack of empathy or a lack of honesty.
Nah, I tended my garden, had some coffee, and going to have some tacos later. I only think about religion when it’s brought up, usually when I see a billboard telling me my life is worthless and magic daddy is gonna have me for barbeque after I die.
It betrays a lack of theory of mind, likely indicating they’re below a fuzzy sort of threshold below which you don’t have the cognitive bandwidth to imagine a perspective beyond your own.
Of course there’s also the group that are probably intelligent enough to understand that other people think differently to them, but don’t care because they are narcissists.
Which is how you get conservatives.
he must be frightened to think about cocoa trees!
or genetically modifying trees to grow whatever you want!!! 😱😱😱😱
This is the best part lmao. This guy not knowing chocolate’s main and defining ingredient does actually grow on trees is peak reddit atheist
Man you should be charging reddit rent to be living in your head like this. Greentext is 4chan.
I know the meme arrows come from 4chan dude. But this is Reddit atheist behavior. Bro is probably the author of the “euphoric” quote
I get what you mean. Reddit Atheist is an archetype not a filing category. One can be Reddit Atheist without even making contact with a reddit
Exactly ! I was one for a brief period, so I’d know !
replace the choco with cocoa lol
Still waiting on my sausage tree
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Yeah that period of time, where you believe nothing matters, so consequences don’t matter, until you realize that just because it doesn’t matter in the long run, it still sucks and you still have to deal with it, is one of the more challenging aspects of childhood atheism.
That’s not atheism, that’s nihilism which is different.
Atheists don’t believe in God, largely because religion doesn’t really answer any of the big questions. No particular mode of behaviour is required of an atheist. You certainly don’t need to go around being destructive of quasi religious icons (Christmas trees aren’t even related to Christianity it’s a corporate thing).
Nihilism is just the people who are having a midlife crisis, or are just play acting at depression in order to get attention. It’s not a philosophical position. It’s just been whiny.
Christmas trees are actually an older pagan thing that happens in several cultures, but the practice is pretty close to an old Saturnalia tradition.
Atheists are just the other side of the coin from religion, they KNOW there is no god and nothing you say matters. They can’t prove it, but they have absolute faith and will fight you every step of the way because their dogma demands it.
Agnostics are more the chill ones. They know they can’t prove if there is or isn’t, they just know religion isn’t for them.
That’s a mental hang up on your part. How do you prove the lack of something?
It’s more like an offshoot of being raised religious and realizing none of it adds up but it still is a part of your worldview so it’s easy to swing from one extreme to the other.
If god isn’t real nothing matters so you can do what you want. Then the consequences of reality hit and you realize that just because god isn’t real doesn’t mean the consequences aren’t.
science doesn’t allow chocolate to grow on trees
SMRT
Everyone knows chocolate is produced in a lab as a result of a complicated chemical process and is definitely not a real occurring natural organic product that grows from a plant.
I mean yeah it’s not a tree, but still.
The definition of 'tree’is very timey-wimey
Anon the grinch
“You know what I hate the most about religion? Its the way they try to shove their beliefs down your throat!”
That dad? Albert Einstein.
It sounds like anonny learned a valuable lesson that day
science doesnt allow chocolate to be grown on trees
Not with that attitude it doesnt. Give us a few hundred years and we’ll have them growing it fully formed, with caramel inside.
Cocoa beans are actually roots.
“I have removed the chocolate from the tree. Science doesn’t allow chocolate to grow on trees”
Anon science’d so hard he because a superstitious nutcase (many such cases). This is completely zealot brained.
