After reading some discussion on lemmygrad about veganism, I felt the need to share my thoughts in a separate thread, as comments weren’t appropriate for the wall of text I’m about to throw.
Before we start, very important precision. This is not about environmental veganism, only about animal-liberation veganism. Consuming less animal products will be a lifestyle change we must anticipate to limit environmental destruction. This is about the moral philosophy of veganism and its contradictions with materialism.
Intro
Veganism is often rationalised under the form of a syllogism : it is immortal to kill and exploit humans, and non-human animals are equal to humans, therefore, it is immoral to kill and exploit non-human animals.
Now, I must say, if one is to contest the validity of this syllogism as a basis for veganism I encourage them to provide one since it could drastically change my point of view.
Like many syllogisms, there is appeal and validity to it until you question the premises. Let’s review them under a materialistic lens.
Morality and materialism
The first premise is that it is immortal to kill and exploit humans. As leftists, we tend to wholeheartedly agree with such a statement, as it encapsulates our ambitions and dreams, however this cannot be pursued for a political manifest beyond utopian wishful thinking. Historically, killing has been justified as a high moral act whenever the one being killed was deemed worthy of death. The reason it is generally considered immoral to interrupt one’s life is because humans simply have to collaborate to survive, therefore every society has developed a social construct that allows us to live as a social productive species. But whenever a war enemy, criminal, or dissident person is being killed under certain circumstances, the killing becomes justified, morally right.
As materialists, we don’t base our interpretation of morality on a notion of some metaphysical, reality-transcending rule, and even less in relation to an afterlife. Morality is a human construct that evolves with material conditions. In that case, the relationship of human morality with non-human animals becomes more complicated than it seems. Humans do have empathy for other species but are also able to consume their flesh and products, a contradiction that has defined the construction of morality around non-human animals through history. This explains why it seems desirable for a lot of people to stop unnecessary animal cruelty while still wanting to consume their flesh, there is an act of balancing between empathy and appetite.
Equality of species and violence
Now you might have noticed that this framework is definitely human-centric. That brings us to the second premise, which is the equality of all species. By all means, it is absolutely outdated to maintain the idea of “human superiority” on all non-human species in the current times. As materialists, we should realise that humans evolved at the same time as other species, are dependent on the ecosystem, and that there is no fundamental variable that we have to consider as a criteria for ranking in an abstract “order of things”.
That said, the equality of all species doesn’t automatically mean the disappearance of inter-species violence. Firstly, we cannot stop unnecessary violence between fellow living beings that don’t share our means of communication (unless we exerce physical control over them, but that’s even worse). Secondly, there is an assumption that only humans possess the ability to choose to follow a vegan diet, which is extremely strange considering that it makes humans the only specie to have the capacity to be moral. Either non-human animals are excused for their chauvinistic violence against other species because they are seen as too limited, determined by their instinct, but it makes humans actually morally superior to other species. Or the animals must be held accountable for inter-species violence, which no vegan upholds, thankfully. Last option would be to consider that inter-species violence is part of life, which I agree with and think is the materialistic approach, but that means there is no reason to adopt a vegan diet.
Conclusion
So what does that let us with? Morality being a social construct with a material use in a human society, and humans being fundamentally empathetic, it is completely understandable that society will be progressing towards diminishing meat consumption to allow the minimization of animal suffering. But the exploitation of animals as means of food production doesn’t have a materialistic reason to go away (unless we’re talking about climate change, of course). The inter-species violence of humans against cattle and prey is part of nature, because we simply are a productive omnivorous specie just like any other.
This is mostly why I would discourage pushing people to abandon all animal products in the name of ethics. What should be encouraged is acceptance of every specific diet, be it religious diets, or animal-liberation diets. Strict vegetarianism must be a choice of heart that is based on profound empathy, not a superior moral choice or, worse, a moral imperative.
Imagine 2 boxes. One has an armed mouse trap inside and one has a chocolate bar. There are signs on the box explaining what is inside. You and an infant must each put your hand inside one of the boxes and retrieve its contents . In your understanding of “equal”, both you and the infant are considered equal in this scenario when you, an adult capable of reading and reasoning, have a clear advantage on determining the outcome of the box test.
The thought that humans and non humans are equal too broad of a statement. We of course have advantages over non humans. What should be said instead is: humans and non humans have an equal right to live.
There’s nothing special about us in the grand scheme of things that puts our lives above the life of anything else. Of course humans consider human life as the most important just as an ant would consider ant life the most important, but there’s no universal accountant keeping a list here.
But, as far as we know we’re the only creatures with morals, ethics and empathy. We understand that pain is felt by any creature with a nervous system. We understand emotions can be felt by many creatures with brains. We can’t truly call ourselves equals but we must be obliged to reduce the amount of pain we inflict on others because we’re the only beings who can.
We’ve reached a point in our understanding of the environment and dietary needs where we can sustain ourselves without needing to enslave other species. The fleeting joy one experiences from eating a Big Mac is not worth the torture of the cow the meat came from.
Thank you for bringing this up, it’s true that “equal right to live” is a better way of expressing the vegan position. Although the definition of inter-species equality that you attribute to my original post is not the one I intend at all. If I edit my post and replace the “equal” by “have an equal right to live” then my take would be the same.
Again, humans and non-humans alike don’t have a right to live if you look at the ecosystem as it is. When the first homo sapiens developed the first tools and proto language, there were no right for anything to live. Now the homo sapiens have accumulated a great deal of learning through language. What changed? In order to organise our lives as bigger and bigger collectives we developed tacit rules. The very first rule is, don’t go and kill someone because you like to, only kill the people who harm the community.
So that’s why…
(Actually non-humans have empathy that’s a common argument for veganism)
Humans have developed morality. Because that’s useful. For us, the collective craft-based language-based species. That’s part of the collective life of humans. Other species though, as you put it, cannot take part of it, they don’t share the language or the crafting ability.
So, when you say equal right to live, my question is, in front of whom? Humans have a right to live when other humans recognise their right to live. Humans aren’t slaves when other humans recognise that they have a right to be free. So other species have a right to exist and be free in front of the humans who think they do.
So basically, we could adopt moralistic veganism as a basis for society, the question is why would we? And again, I’m not talking about climate change. Imo to tackle climate change we need to use the grass area for grazing because that’s better than mono crop agriculture. We need “slaves animals” in practice, even if we only consume them very rarely.