That is your belief. I respect it. My mom is a vegetarian and I respect her beliefs, she would cook meat for us as she respected ours.
To me, the world has been eating itself since the beginning of life. Wild animals die horrible slow deaths from sickness to starvation over the course of days/weeks to being eaten alive or left to die, and that is the natural way of things. If you want to live you have to die. You don’t have to agree with me, but you should accept that different people see things differently than you.
I don’t expect a person at the bottom of the economic scale to feed their family with expensive alternatives that they don’t understand, and you should’t shame them for doing the best they can with what they have or what they know. If someone has the means to eat along with their beliefs, then more power to them. But shaming others is not the way.
Lead by example. Offer affordable alternatives, give positive publicity, not negative publicity, to let people see how your way can be good. Allow people to see your way. Don’t force them or they’ll just dig in deeper on their own beliefs.
Animals are being slaughtered they want to live. I respect your belief that the rock music is not garbage not your beliefs others should die for your sensory pleasure. Not consuming animal products is not an expensive luxury at all its way cheaper than meat and dairy and that would be magnified if the subsidies stopped.
If you believe that then you should work to change people’s minds, like actually research how to do that. The way you currently approach it will only make people disagree with you out of spite. Good luck to you.
Some people really think being a good example of the product of their beliefs and being obnoxiously obtuse and argumentative about their beliefs are equally effective at persuading others to think like them.
I can tell you no person ever in the history of humanity was convinced by the latter.
Worse, if someone attempts to convince me of something I already think is wrong and uses an argument that I am convinced is flawed, they will only make me more sure I was right in the first place.
How? Should anti nazi advocates never challenged nazi beliefs and instead say doing a little less genocide is okay. Should anti-colonial revolutionaries not responded with violence or direct action to force the colonizers to change and instead sent letters saying " I know you are people too you are activly harming me but I’m not going to fight against you we have to agree to disagree." Your point makes no sense.
That’s the most straw man argument I’ve seen in a while.
Maybe take a step back and think about how using nazi analogies when discussing meat eaters is counterproductive to your beliefs and frigging offensive to large swaths of the global population who were affected by nazis. Those two things are not comparable and you need to do some self education if you think that’s okay or persuasive.
Maybe take another step back and recognize that many people who were tortured by the nazis see the similarities to animal agriculture and are actively against it
“Perhaps the earliest use of the analogy comes from Edgar Kupfer-Koberwitz, a German concentration camp survivor and journalist, who wrote in 1940 in his “Dachau Diaries” from inside the Dachau Concentration Camp that “I have suffered so much myself that I can feel other creatures’ suffering by virtue of my own”.[4][5] He further wrote, “I believe as long as man tortures and kills animals, he will torture and kill humans as well—and wars will be waged—for killing must be practiced and learned on a small scale”.[4]”
Those did challenge the oppressors for one they both had sticks like Malcolm x and the many assassinations of British leaders and other violent actions by Indian independence actors. You can’t just erase huge parts of those movements. Also MLK JR was very disruptive with sit ins and marches he was nonviolent yes but differently not coddling or non-disruptive.
The animals are being bred to live and die. Everything loves and dies. If we didn’t eat cows they would be extinct. A billion animals that get to experience being. I am against indoor livestock agribusiness that is a manamade hell on earth, but good local ranchers raising livestock I like. Personally I’d rather live for a while and be eaten than never get to live at all.
Local ranchers can’t provide any reasonable kind of meat or dairy production for our population no matter how much the ideal farm you are picturing is a myth still using widespread abuse of the animals. Cows would live in drastically lesser numbers on sanctuaries and such. Breeding a population to kill for your sense pleasure isn’t justified unless you would be okay doing the same to humans.
If you help kill living beings out of spite then I’m not the problem. If nobody is challenged when they kill and oppress others they will never stop doing so.
That is your belief. I respect it. My mom is a vegetarian and I respect her beliefs, she would cook meat for us as she respected ours.
To me, the world has been eating itself since the beginning of life. Wild animals die horrible slow deaths from sickness to starvation over the course of days/weeks to being eaten alive or left to die, and that is the natural way of things. If you want to live you have to die. You don’t have to agree with me, but you should accept that different people see things differently than you.
I don’t expect a person at the bottom of the economic scale to feed their family with expensive alternatives that they don’t understand, and you should’t shame them for doing the best they can with what they have or what they know. If someone has the means to eat along with their beliefs, then more power to them. But shaming others is not the way.
Lead by example. Offer affordable alternatives, give positive publicity, not negative publicity, to let people see how your way can be good. Allow people to see your way. Don’t force them or they’ll just dig in deeper on their own beliefs.
Animals are being slaughtered they want to live. I respect your belief that the rock music is not garbage not your beliefs others should die for your sensory pleasure. Not consuming animal products is not an expensive luxury at all its way cheaper than meat and dairy and that would be magnified if the subsidies stopped.
If you believe that then you should work to change people’s minds, like actually research how to do that. The way you currently approach it will only make people disagree with you out of spite. Good luck to you.
Some people really think being a good example of the product of their beliefs and being obnoxiously obtuse and argumentative about their beliefs are equally effective at persuading others to think like them.
I can tell you no person ever in the history of humanity was convinced by the latter.
Worse, if someone attempts to convince me of something I already think is wrong and uses an argument that I am convinced is flawed, they will only make me more sure I was right in the first place.
No injustice was ever corrected by coddling the oppressors.
You’re doing the thing that creates the opposite world you wanna live in again.
How? Should anti nazi advocates never challenged nazi beliefs and instead say doing a little less genocide is okay. Should anti-colonial revolutionaries not responded with violence or direct action to force the colonizers to change and instead sent letters saying " I know you are people too you are activly harming me but I’m not going to fight against you we have to agree to disagree." Your point makes no sense.
That’s the most straw man argument I’ve seen in a while.
Maybe take a step back and think about how using nazi analogies when discussing meat eaters is counterproductive to your beliefs and frigging offensive to large swaths of the global population who were affected by nazis. Those two things are not comparable and you need to do some self education if you think that’s okay or persuasive.
Maybe take another step back and recognize that many people who were tortured by the nazis see the similarities to animal agriculture and are actively against it
Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_analogy_in_animal_rights
“Perhaps the earliest use of the analogy comes from Edgar Kupfer-Koberwitz, a German concentration camp survivor and journalist, who wrote in 1940 in his “Dachau Diaries” from inside the Dachau Concentration Camp that “I have suffered so much myself that I can feel other creatures’ suffering by virtue of my own”.[4][5] He further wrote, “I believe as long as man tortures and kills animals, he will torture and kill humans as well—and wars will be waged—for killing must be practiced and learned on a small scale”.[4]”
Except for the civil rights movement. Or Indian independence under Ghandi.
Those did challenge the oppressors for one they both had sticks like Malcolm x and the many assassinations of British leaders and other violent actions by Indian independence actors. You can’t just erase huge parts of those movements. Also MLK JR was very disruptive with sit ins and marches he was nonviolent yes but differently not coddling or non-disruptive.
Who is being oppressed? Are you not free to perdue your own dietary choices?
The animals are being oppressed.
The animals are being bred to live and die. Everything loves and dies. If we didn’t eat cows they would be extinct. A billion animals that get to experience being. I am against indoor livestock agribusiness that is a manamade hell on earth, but good local ranchers raising livestock I like. Personally I’d rather live for a while and be eaten than never get to live at all.
Local ranchers can’t provide any reasonable kind of meat or dairy production for our population no matter how much the ideal farm you are picturing is a myth still using widespread abuse of the animals. Cows would live in drastically lesser numbers on sanctuaries and such. Breeding a population to kill for your sense pleasure isn’t justified unless you would be okay doing the same to humans.
If you help kill living beings out of spite then I’m not the problem. If nobody is challenged when they kill and oppress others they will never stop doing so.
Also who are you to tell me how to argue for animal liberation given whats been tried before has obviously not worked on you.