Very, very sick of the no campaign brigading every discussion with terrible arguments in bad faith.
I have yet to encounter a legal expert, or for that matter, an Indigenous Australian who is accepted by their community, who is opposed. Similarly, the law is my degree. I’ve spent five years of my life studying it, and although I’m not a graduate yet (two units to go), I’d think I’d know more about this shit than Joe from bumfuck nowhere on Facebook.
There is no case for a no vote. None whatsoever. The change would not grant special rights to Indigenous Australians. It has been repeatedly explained by both lawyers and politicians. You can read the change yourself. It has to be a constitutional change, because that protects it from being outright removed by successive governments, which is the very thing that happened to the previous body that performed this role. By definition, it is not racist, as racism refers to negative treatment on the basis of race or ethnic background, and not differing treatment. This is one of three steps proposed by Indigenous Australians towards reconciliation, and isn’t the endpoint. If it fails, it will be the endpoint.
When the colonisers arrived, Indigenous Australians outnumbered colonisers. Now, they make up just 2.5% of the population. We are driving them to extinction. If this fails, by the time we get around to trying again, it is likely the genocide will have all but been completed.
Ethically and morally, a yes vote is the only choice. Legally, it is the best choice for change.
One thing that aggravates my parents (definite No voters) is that there is no acknowledgement from the Yes campaign of the internal failures of previous bodies like ATSIC. It’s fair to state that the government dismantled bodies like ATSIC, but the Yes campaign seem to be deliberately hiding or ignoring the fraud, corruption, ineffectiveness, and nepotism that existed in these organisations.
For No voters like my parents, they question why we should force a similar organisation into the Constitution, particularly when there were so many systemic (and even criminal) problems with ATSIC.
In all honesty, having read those same reports in the past (does it make me a weirdo that I enjoy reading this kind of thing?) I note that many of the individuals involved in this corruption were installed by LNP governments (tempted to say “of future past,” because that just sounds fun). I smell false flag on their part, as they have been known to install cronies into organisations they’re opposed to so they can tear it down and claim they’re ‘fixing’ them
I don’t know anything about it but perhaps ATSIC was responsible for issuing funding to other bodies, whereas the budget for voice will just be their internal expenses.
I’d honestly ask them what the fuck that has to do with enshrining Indigenous representation in parliament tbh.
Oh no a govt body was corrupt!!! Do they want to remove the ability for all Australians to vote because of robodebt? Because that makes as much fcking sense.
Perhaps, but calling them names and hurling insults is never going to change their mind. It may even embolden their position because name-calling usually means that you don’t have a good response to their argument.
I don’t really care to change the minds of those people, better to continue harassing and marginalising them. They get stroppy, start to post on social media, get shit canned/dumped/ostracised by friends/colleagues. It’s boring work but it’s worth it, I assume anyway
Agreed. One of my family members worked for ATSIC from the beginning, wanting to do good. They resigned in disgust at the corruption before it was exposed and torn down. It’s an ugly bit of history that is being ignored.
Very, very sick of the no campaign brigading every discussion with terrible arguments in bad faith.
I have yet to encounter a legal expert, or for that matter, an Indigenous Australian who is accepted by their community, who is opposed. Similarly, the law is my degree. I’ve spent five years of my life studying it, and although I’m not a graduate yet (two units to go), I’d think I’d know more about this shit than Joe from bumfuck nowhere on Facebook.
There is no case for a no vote. None whatsoever. The change would not grant special rights to Indigenous Australians. It has been repeatedly explained by both lawyers and politicians. You can read the change yourself. It has to be a constitutional change, because that protects it from being outright removed by successive governments, which is the very thing that happened to the previous body that performed this role. By definition, it is not racist, as racism refers to negative treatment on the basis of race or ethnic background, and not differing treatment. This is one of three steps proposed by Indigenous Australians towards reconciliation, and isn’t the endpoint. If it fails, it will be the endpoint.
When the colonisers arrived, Indigenous Australians outnumbered colonisers. Now, they make up just 2.5% of the population. We are driving them to extinction. If this fails, by the time we get around to trying again, it is likely the genocide will have all but been completed.
Ethically and morally, a yes vote is the only choice. Legally, it is the best choice for change.
One thing that aggravates my parents (definite No voters) is that there is no acknowledgement from the Yes campaign of the internal failures of previous bodies like ATSIC. It’s fair to state that the government dismantled bodies like ATSIC, but the Yes campaign seem to be deliberately hiding or ignoring the fraud, corruption, ineffectiveness, and nepotism that existed in these organisations.
One can read all about the structural problems, lack of accountability, and failure to deliver results that were detailed in the parliamentary findings on ATSIC. https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Former_Committees/indigenousaffairs/report/final/c02
If you have library access, the 2003 report, In the Hand of the Regions, is also worth a read: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26479564
There were also criminal investigations launched into both the Chief of ATSIC, Geoff Clark, and the deputy chairman, “Sugar” Ray Robinson.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11071533/Geoff-Clark-ex-ATSIC-chief-facing-2million-fraud-charges-threatens-senator-Jacinta-Price.html
https://www.smh.com.au/national/former-atsic-leader-sugar-ray-in-court-20060118-gdmsov.html
For No voters like my parents, they question why we should force a similar organisation into the Constitution, particularly when there were so many systemic (and even criminal) problems with ATSIC.
In all honesty, having read those same reports in the past (does it make me a weirdo that I enjoy reading this kind of thing?) I note that many of the individuals involved in this corruption were installed by LNP governments (tempted to say “of future past,” because that just sounds fun). I smell false flag on their part, as they have been known to install cronies into organisations they’re opposed to so they can tear it down and claim they’re ‘fixing’ them
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The corruption happened because they were given a budget with no oversight. The Voice is only an advisory body with no budget to control.
So who’s paying for it? Or are it’s members all volunteers?
I’m voting yes, but this sounds like a bit of an exaggeration
I don’t know anything about it but perhaps ATSIC was responsible for issuing funding to other bodies, whereas the budget for voice will just be their internal expenses.
I’d honestly ask them what the fuck that has to do with enshrining Indigenous representation in parliament tbh.
Oh no a govt body was corrupt!!! Do they want to remove the ability for all Australians to vote because of robodebt? Because that makes as much fcking sense.
Yes, I’m sure that’s their defining motivator…
It’s not at all that they’re ignorant, rusted on, bigots
Perhaps, but calling them names and hurling insults is never going to change their mind. It may even embolden their position because name-calling usually means that you don’t have a good response to their argument.
posted in wrong thread
I don’t really care to change the minds of those people, better to continue harassing and marginalising them. They get stroppy, start to post on social media, get shit canned/dumped/ostracised by friends/colleagues. It’s boring work but it’s worth it, I assume anyway
Agreed. One of my family members worked for ATSIC from the beginning, wanting to do good. They resigned in disgust at the corruption before it was exposed and torn down. It’s an ugly bit of history that is being ignored.