Transcript
The “For the better”, also known as Anakin and Padme 4-Panel and Clueless Padme meme. The first panel shows a guy saying “You should vote dem and push them to be better.” The second panel shows another person saying “So you’re going to push them to be better after you vote?”. The third panel shows the first person saying nothing and staring. The last one shows the second person with a concerned look on her face saying “you’re going to push them to be better after you vote?”.
At least with dems nothing changes (like conservatives claim their party is for)
At least with dems nothing changes
the problem with “nothing changes” is that it in fact, does change. wages have stagnated for decades and the cost of living keeps rising, and dems won’t vote to increase minimum wage. meaning dems are actively making things worse for people by doing nothing. dems could have enshrined abortoin rights in law, they did nothing and now those rights are lost to a portion of the nation, with plans by republicans to make that nationwide.
I could keep going like this for hours, talking about all the things dems have made worse with their “nothing changes” policy, but I think we all get the idea. nothing changes is nothing more than a policy of slowly making things worse.
I can’t expect better than steady decline from modern voters/politicians
It’s a steady decline tho
True, I more meant at least things dont get actively worse at the speed they do when mfs like trump are in power
The problem with that is people will get annoyed at the stagnation, since things get worse (though the party doesn’t actively try to make things worse) people will get frustrated and vote for trump, who promises change.
That’s how the dems let trump win.
They’re no opposition at all. They’re an organisation of and for the ruling class.
I mean, it’s a big party and there’s a lot of different members with a lot of different takes that exist on a wide spectrum.
But we watched politicians like AOC and Warren get chewed up. And we watched politicians like Cori Bush and Jamal Bowman get spat out. We’re watching the folks who were crying “Our Party Needs To Win More Young Men To Beat Donald Trump” turn and piss all over Zohran Mamdani, a candidate who has been absolutely magnetic to anti-Trump young men.
There’s a real contradiction between the folks voting Team Blue and the folks claiming to represent those voters. Until that contradiction is reconciled, there can’t be a united front against fascism.
There can be no united front with any liberals. They will use the first opportunity they get to betray any such united front and help the fascists out. Please learn that from history, we need not repeat it.
No liberal organisation is in our best interest. The only thing that helps against fascism are left organisations, extra-parliamentary opposition and extra-legal action.
There can be no united front with any liberals.
FFS, even Mao and Lenin didn’t think that way. But then they didn’t see the lay liberal as a serious impediment to their efforts at de-colonization. They saw them as an impediment to the yeoman’s work of reorganizing the body public on a mass scale. And they addressed the impediment through Mass Line politics and iterative, experimental reforms.
No liberal organisation is in our best interest.
Liberals are going to organize whether you want them to or not. And in a country as heavily weighted towards older, liberally educated service sector professionals as your average western state, you’re going to get a lot of them popping up under every regime of any political valiance.
Conservatives have spent 60 years building a media and a body politic that manipulates liberals into supporting their agenda. Leftists will have to learn to be at least as persuasive and compelling. Because liberalism isn’t something you can ignore. And the western leftist movement isn’t in any position to call the shots. The whole point of a Vanguard Party is to spearhead a revolutionary program that can sway and mobilize the body public. It isn’t going to be able to staff every bureaucratic position, much less to impose a universal orthodoxy on everyone, nor should it try.
Nothing do I ever have in common with the cause of the class enemy - Bertolt Brecht
Liberals and the democratic party are class enemies. Mao and Lenin very well did see the threat of the liberals and their treachery. Lenin quite literally lived through those times when in Germany liberals used proto-fascists to murder socialists and suppress the revolution there.
Liberals can organize all they want. They’ll still fail and hand power to fascists eventually. Let the American scum suffer their fate.
They will always be our enemies. The only way any kind of temporary united front will work is if liberals accept to work beneath us, not the other way around. If democrats were willing to follow a communist party for an united front, then it would be acceptable for the time being. But we should never let liberals lead any such endeavour. Because this strengthens them as well. And when all is well and done we need to exterminate liberals along with any fascists and other reactionaries. No united front has ever lead to socialism.
We’re far better off organising on our own. Our own mass parties need to lead to the establishment of vanguard parties. Or do you really think liberals will allow a Marxist vanguard to take the lead of any uprising or on the political stage at large?
Liberals and the democratic party are class enemies.
The vast majority of liberals and the bulk of the Democratic (and much of the Republican) rank-and-file are the same working class schlubs you’ll find at any DSA meeting. They’re all still proles, subject to the same degradation of the industrial process as any proper socialist. Their understanding of the world differs, but their material conditions are much the same. Forming a mass line necessarily minds finding common causes that liberals and leftists can unify under, whether it is an anti-war movement or environmental activism or a civil rights crusade.
Liberals can organize all they want. They’ll still fail and hand power to fascists eventually.
Organizations of every stripe can and do fail. Fascism, as a tendency, is an eternal existential threat. This isn’t an excuse to distance yourself from your friends, your family, and your neighbors on ideological grounds.
We’re far better off organising on our own.
Vanguards are a great way of mobilizing a small number of committed activists to radical action. But the point of the vanguard is to lead the body public, not to fight the body public.
Ignorance is no excuse in the court of law. It should be no different for ideological matters. Liberals choose to become class traitors or were already class enemies by being born not into the working class. They should suffer the consequences of that choice.
Also we’re not just talking about individual people but a political party. It doesn’t matter who the voters are, the party leadership is class enemies, they aren’t working class, the party itself is designed as capitalist party. No compromise should ever be made with those. As quoted before we have nothing in common with the cause of the class enemy. Ever.
I think you’re misunderstanding the purpose of a mass line or rather what purpose it serves for us. A mass line that is not lead by Marxists will ultimately benefit those who are not Marxists the most. That is a bad deal for us. Mass lines only work with a communist party in power already.
Take a look into recent history with the Occupy Wallstreet protests for example. They all amounted to nothing and fizzled out because they were “liberalised”.
Lastly the vanguard doesn’t fight the public body. It’s not what I propose either. The public body is not liberals. Those are a parasite inside the public body that needs to be removed. You’re following the enemy’s logic by equating liberalism with the people.
Ignorance is no excuse in the court of law.
I wish someone would tell the SEC.
A mass line that is not lead by Marxists will ultimately benefit those who are not Marxists the most.
Which is, again, the purpose of a Vanguard movement.
At the same time, vanguards need to accrue power and public exposure over time. It doesn’t happen overnight.
You will inevitably have to deal with people who enjoy more authority, access more resources, and command a larger audience than you, who aren’t Maoists.
How do you deal with them? Throw hands? Pretend they don’t exist?
deleted by creator
United Fronts with liberals were a Stalin thing
During WW2, certainly. And it worked out well enough, until FDR plotzed.
And historically, united fronts were literally against workers interest
United fronts that protect and preserve the lives and livelihoods of residents, accelerate the accumulation of industrial capacity, and generate the kind of economic surplus necessary to enter a socialist stage of economic development are fully within the interests of the working class as a body. But like any large scale public policy, there are winners and losers. It is very easy for a bourgeois media to portray a subset of working people - coal miners during a green revolution, insurance sales reps looking down the barrel of unemployment on the eve of a single payer health care plan, fascist state bureaucrats in the wake of a socialist revolution - as victims of an oppressive left-liberal reform policy.
just look at Mussolini’s Italy
M: Son of the Century does a great job of breaking down Mussolini’s rise to power. And it was the direct result of large swaths of ex-military and special forces divisions being galvanized by private incendiary media platforms bankrolled by bourgeois class interests. This wasn’t Giacomo Matteotti playing too nicely with liberals. If anything, the socialists’ failure of the 1920s was in not extending their revolution to the professional classes in opposition to the unchecked violence of the Nationalists.
For some reason my dumb ass read united front as popular front back when i wrote it from work, mb mb
I agree. There’s hardly any difference between them and the party of child raping traitors that literally take money from our enemies and then use our tax dollars to actively kill US citizens
You can apply the exact same to them. Blue Magats gotta stop idolizing democrats, just because Trump is worse doesn’t mean they’re good.
Bothside got pedos, GOP just has more.
One side enables them.
Yup, the side that was in charge when Epstein was arrested and then killed in jail, and who have regularly brought up the Epstein files, and who can currently release them in their entirety through a simple house vote, but fled via an early recess. Thats the side
Ah so it’s OK if the Democrats do it to other people that are worth less, like brown people or non-USAian citizens?
You seem to only be concerned for the “betrayal”, which is only a miniscule fraction of what your reactionary government (regardless of ruling party) has done to the world.
Yes. That does describe both of them fairly well.
lefties working together to defeat literal fascism challenge (impossible)
liberals are not leftists.
DNC would rather have Trump elected than Bernie…
Never forgot how this shit started.
DNC komisasars view the democratic voter as cattle they own.
Sadly most of them accept it 🤡
Voting in our system is like choosing the boss for the final boss fight. So yeah, if you’re in a place where your vote could make a difference, vote Dem, but never stop raising hell.
I will still heavily judge anyone who decided the best, moral action was to not vote.
You can go shove your morals up your ass. You are not some wise guru who has seen the flaws of the system and have risen above it; you are a stupid dipshit whose inaction has made things worse and are too cowardly to admit you may have been just the teeny-tinyest bit completely fucking ignorant on the way the real world works.
They lazy bro. It’s an excuse to do nothing.
To be fair, there are a TON of posts here about not voting because of a moral stance. And because those are all bots or paid Russian assets… you are correct. Just a bunch of lazy idiots.
You should vote dem and organize a real non-dem opposition, be it a third party or by getting people organized.
True, I’m not opposed to people voting dem, if i were in america I would do it myself, but so many people just vote, and don’t do any organising afterwards.
You should vote dem
Okay, but two questions:
-
Is Eric Adams a Democrat?
-
Should I have voted for him 2021?
-
Skip straight to voting justice for all party if you aren’t in a contested district like 87% of Americans.
Fair enough for the presidential, but it gets a lot muckier with Congressional and local elections. The sentiment is correct, though.
If I could push the Dems at all I’d push most of them off a cliff.
They are the more culturally liberal of the two Wall Street parties, essentially the “good” mobster to the Republican “bad” mobster á la “Vote for me and I’ll try not to make things worse – for now. Or do you want my friend elephant over there to beat you up?”
(Of course they are lying, they are just far more gradual and self-cucking in their reaction)
They are the liberals covering for and collaborating with fascists. They have no issue with concentration border caps and with the pillage, rape and destruction of societies infinitely more valuable and cultured than theirs.
Just put some rainbow and BLM stickers on those bombers and border patrol trucks and everything is good and civilised again; they are the ones that protect you from “the backward barbarians” after all.
But when all that reactionary violence is funnelled inwards as well, when they loose their imperial privilige, they start to whine about “the downfall of our civilisation”.It disgusts me with such deep disdain, because they are just the keepers of capitalism, holding it nice and warm for as long as they can, until the ruling class requires the backup of fascism to “bring order” back into the world and upon the working class; just so that the cycle can begin again and again and again…
(and also two side rants:
- Henry Ford was given the highest award a foreigner could get in fascist Germany, by Hitler himself mind you
- There is nothing inherently progressive about being “LGBTQ+”, you are not subversive, you are not “bringing society forward”. You are reinforcing capitalism by making it more inclusive, you are just another consumer target group that will be disposed of once you become undesirable for the capitalists (so the fascists can have one more “common enemy” to rally against e.g.)
From an older comment of mine:
To quote Malcolm X:
The white liberal is the most dangerous thing in the entire wester hemisphere. He is the most deceitful, he’s like a fox. And a fox is always more dangerous in the forest than the wolf. You can see the wolf coming, you know what he is up to. But the fox will fool you. He comes at you with his mouth shaped in such a way, that even though you see his teeth, you think he is smiling.
All their supposed progress and opposition to capital only reinforces and propels capitalism, alleviating the need for fascism just for a little longer (which arises for the ruling classes when the majority of the population grows disillusioned with their lies, be they conservative or “progressive”). In the end only legitimizing the underlying framework (capitalism), without ever threatening it.
TL;DR: scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
👏more 👏 female 👏 drone 👏 pilots 👏
Just put some rainbow and BLM stickers on those bombers and border patrol trucks and everything is good and civilised again; they are the ones that protect you from “the backward barbarians” after all.
Not the nuance bomb 💀💀
(but muh “both sides”)
Henry Ford introduced 8/40 hour weeks and forced other car companies to compete
Sure, by all means let’s mock and other the only people trying to oppose active fascism.
yeah? is that what continuing to cross the aisle to vote with republicans is? opposing fascism?
here, we are, complaining on the internet wile the dems play 4d chess by working together with trump to defeat himself. mind fucking blown.
Well, if you mean specifically senators or something, you should say that. “The Democrats” is most likely voters, but could also be any number of individuals or positions of power.
Using a general term and then whining like a little bitch about voting across the aisle when you weren’t clear in the first place isn’t helping you change any minds or impress anyone.
when you work across the aisle with fascists, it makes you a fascist. and why would I want to change the mind of a fascist? unless by change minds, you mean clean them out with 5.56mm? because the only good nazi is a dead nazi, and democrats sure like cosplaying nazis.
No, I will do neither and complain on the Internet.
Just think we can stripe down the democratic party and make a leftist party
This meme is the exact opposite of how American politics works.
You vote for the candidate that represents you in the primary. If your candidate wins the primary, great. If not, at least they’re better than a candidate that is the complete opposite of your positions.
You don’t change people after elections. That’s not how it works or how it’s supposed to work.
And where, in this equation, is the “get progressive policy” part supposed to happen?
Yeah, this dude doesn’t even realize he agrees with the OP. He just doesn’t understand that that is OP’s while point.
“Push them to be better after you vote.”
You don’t change them after. You vote for the candidate that represents you during the primary.
The US isn’t a European parliamentary democracy where dozens of parties get a candidate.
Correct, the US is a 2-party system designed to ensure that corporate interests are protected above all else
You vote in the primary. If people don’t vote for your candidate, that’s not the Democrats fault. That’s the fault of Americans.
It doesn’t matter whose fault it is; the goal of getting progressive policy is clearly not being accomplished here.
So no democracy?
It’s representative democracy. Even in Europe you aren’t going to find a politicisn that exactly matches you on every policy unless you run for government yourself.
If you win, everyone, even those that voted for you, will hate you. Because you aren’t them.
It your options are capitalist imperialist A and capitalist imperialist B, then it’s no demcoracy
