I can’t believe I’m agreeing with something MTG put forth.
The thing about setting fires to burn things down is that you often cant control what happens after the fire is lit.
even a stupid clock is broken twice a day,
600+ days into livestreamed extermination and mass starvation in Gaza and these wretched people say they care.
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point
Ugh.
Listen to Marjorie Taylor Greene talk, and she’s easily the worst of the worst. But sometimes she does something like this or speaks out against Trump, and in that respect she may actually be one of the better Republicans, which is an extremely, extremely low bar to clear.
Magic The Gathering?
Marjorie taylor greene
The unions told her to do it
i had no faith in her and somehow still she lets me down every time
or to quote grok. every damn time.
AOC is career politician (insert add for term limits here) and as such she is tries to walk the middle line, carefully selecting her words and never goes far enough on her stance on certain issues that might get her in trouble, like her meandering support about Gaza and Israel. She is not the progressive darling we need, just the best the DNC has, and at times, that isn’t saying much. We need a viable working class, progressive party that isn’t afraid to fight.
She is an outspoken surrogate for President Biden, a figure many fellow socialists have condemned as a warmonger. She has also carefully calibrated her messaging around the war in Gaza, declining to take some positions that have inflamed Jewish Americans.
Ocasio-Cortez Loses the Democratic Socialists’ Endorsement Over Israel
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The bill removed “offensive” weapons, but left in “defensive” weapons. The distinction is meaningless; defensive weapon systems allow Israel to continue to prosecute it’s genocide without other countries (notably Iran) being able to act against them, so it still enables genocide.
Agreed.
If she votes against the bill: AOC opposes cutting military aid to Israel!
If she votes for the bill: AOC voted to keep sending weapons to Israel!
No. There were two distinct votes at play here.
The first vote, for which she voted nay, was to amend the bill, removing the sending of weapons to Israel.
The last vote, for which she voted nay, was to pass the bill itself.At issue here is the first vote only.
This yearly military budget bill always gets passed, without exception, which AOC knows. She knew that, in the end, the bill would get passed despite her nay vote. That being the case, why did she vote against removing military aid to Israel?
You aren’t making your case here.
It wouldn’t have mattered how she voted on this bill to anyone that thinks she isn’t far enough left, or left in the correct way, because that amendment wouldn’t have eliminated all Israel weapons from the bill. As you know. Voted to stop sending some weapons to Israel? That’s not enough, therefore she supports genocide. Didn’t vote to stop sending some weapons to Israel? She supports genocide. It’s ‘heads I win, tails you lose’.
She knew that, in the end, the bill would get passed despite her nay vote.
Okay, she also knew that the amendment wouldn’t get passed, so there’s no harm in voting against it, right? You’re applying two different standards of logic here. If you look at it through the lens of, “AOC wants to eliminate all military funding to Israel”, then the votes are ideologically consistent; the first fails to meet the goal, so gets voted down, the second vote–the overall military appropriation–funds Israel, and so also gets voted down.
You’re setting up an unfalsifiable argument, where there’s no condition that would lead you to believe that she’s opposed to the genocide in Palestine.
we’re at a point where sadly even when you carefully explain it, with step by step instructions on why her vote was problematic, like you did right here, they either still act lost or still find ways to defend her vote.
AOC says she supports sending weapons to Israel. You don’t have pretend otherwise.
Can you tell me which sentence in that statement clearly says, “I support sending weapons to Israel”? Or are you making a lot of inferences based on you a priori beliefs?
You’re not proving your point.
Hope that helps.
Did you fail English in school?
Update: AOC clarifies she supports genocide and it is not about MTG
What she actually said, for anyone who cares:
Marjorie Taylor Greene’s amendment does nothing to cut off offensive aid to Israel nor end the flow of US munitions being used in Gaza. Of course I voted against it. What it does do is cut off defensive Iron Dome capacities while allowing the actual bombs killing Palestinians to continue.
I have long stated that I do not believe that adding to the death count of innocent victims to this war is constructive to its end. That is a simple and clear difference of opinion that has long been established.
I remain focused on cutting the flow of US munitions that are being used to perpetuate the genocide in Gaza.
For the record, I think this is a shitty explanation. The Iron Dome permits Israel to commit it’s genocide with impunity and act as a belligerent in the region. I get the attempt to differentiate between defensive support and offensive support, but cutting of arms for the Iron Dome would be the fastest way to curb Israeli aggression. But this statement in no way, “clarifies that she supports genocide.”
Well that is certainly one interpretation of her words. Maybe not the one closest to the truth but definitely one way of thinking lol.
I mean I disagree I think it’s absolutely closest to the truth. She’s just trying to fudge what she means but that’s exactly what the truth is.
No, her goal is to preserve life. Israel needs defense just like any other country. They don’t need the other three billion dollars that we give them for offense. Removing their money for defense is the dumbest idea. That is what AOC is pointing out.
Well that’s just nonsense. First of all any money you send them for defense is money they don’t have to spend a defense so they’re spending offense. That’s just common sense. Secondly giving them a giant suit of armor just allows them to act with impunity in the region. That giant suit of armor is what allows them to slaughter people with no thought to consequences. All she’s doing is arming and equipping a genocidal fascist state. That’s it. That’s the truth.
Because it’s not money. It’s the value of the equipment that they are given or allowed to spend the money on. We give them 500 million or whatever in credit towards American companies that make defensive equipment.
If we only gave them the giant suit of armor, and nothing else, then that’s all they could possibly use. Defense.
If we give them no suit of armor but tons and tons of guns then that’s all they could possibly use. Offense.
That’s the difference here, MTG wants to remove their defense so that they get more aggressive. AOC says that’s ridiculous and we should remove their offense while keeping their defense solid. AOC cares about all life not just who’s side is getting bombed now.
Brother that didn’t make any sense whatsoever. Did you not read my comment?
Any money you give to a genocidal state. Any money whatsoever. Any equipment. Any Aid. Anything. That’s funding genocide. End of story.
I would support a drawdown of aid across the board.
I would not support a plan that would make Israel more aggressive. That is what this MTG amendment would do.
The idea that Israel being immune to facing any blowback to it’s endless aggression is somehow making it less aggressive is so absurd that I can only assume you’re trolling.
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So you would support the USA sending billions of dollars of defensive weapons to Russia to protect them from Ukrainian attack?
Or are you a hypocritical toad?
Your ad homonym means that this conversation is over.
Ah yes, the classic reddit loser move of reading off terms from the wikipedia entry on logical fallacies like they’re magic incantations that win internet arguments.
Maybe you should actually learn what ad-hominem means before trying to act like a mystical debate wizard, because nothing I said was one.
No it’s the only interpretation.
The post title is BS, but the content is worthwhile, lol. Singling out just one person? Come on now, don’t be a doofus.
Wouldn’t it be boring if every news article had the same headline?
“Everybody Sucks Here. Again.”
What is BS in the title?
The cherry picked nature of only mentioning AOC. 428 other representatives did the same thing, which is the real story.
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/aoc-is-a-genocidal-con-artist
People who say you should criticize AOC less because there are way worse members of congress act like she’s just passively sitting there being a mediocre lawmaker. She’s not. She’s actively anchoring the leftmost edge of the Overton window of US politics to militarism, capitalism, colonialism, and genocide. She’s actively stopping American politics from moving any further left than the nightmare we see before us.
Leftists shouldn’t hate AOC less than the politicians to her right, they should hate her much more. It isn’t Mike Johnson’s responsibility to move the US government to the left, and it’s not Nancy Pelosi’s job. It’s hers. That’s what she was elected to do. That’s what she framed the goals of her entire political career as being. And she’s taking her stand firmly bracing against any leftward movement from America’s genocidal, warmongering, unjust, exploitative, tyrannical status quo.
I mean, yeah, I don’t disagree, but surely its more important for this specific article to note that there are only 6 representatives in the house who care about reducing the money going to Israel?
We all know the establishment is corrupt.
The progressives are the ones supposed to not be voting with the establishment.
This looks like a bad-faith AOC attack piece. I’m sure she’s not perfect. I’m also sure that she’s a better, more ethical politician than most in the USA (which isn’t saying much, you guys have awful politicians).
One might wonder why you choose to post this, instead of focusing on the way, way, way worse things also going on over there.
Quite telling.
One might wonder why you choose to post this, instead of focusing on the way, way, way worse things also going on over there.
Because it’s the truth. Because having a full picture of the situation is important for informed decision making. Because ignoring any news that makes ‘your side’ look bad is what magas do.
voting to send more weapons to settlers so they are able to genocide with impunity makes her complicit
I understand.
AOC clarified she supports sending weapons to Israel and this was not a mistake. https://lemmy.ml/post/33383345
Uh-huh. https://i.redd.it/i2u9r76ylvdf1.jpeg
I don’t have all the info she does. I do abhor the war on Gaza and am against violence, especially the genocidal kind we see here. I also don’t think there’s an easy solution to the problem, nor that MTG’s proposal would have done anything good.
Let’s just say we’re mostly on the same side of this matter, nitpicking over details.
nor that MTG’s proposal would have done anything good.
Not sending weapons to Israel would not have done any good? What?
I’m pretty sure a large contingent of her constituency is New York Jews, many of whom are probably Orthodox… It’s not a stretch to believe that many of those voters are also ZionistsZohran Mamdani has destroyed that argument already.
Not only that, but her specific district is overwhelmingly Latino. The way the district lines are formed almost looks like it deliberately avoids the Jewish enclaves. She isn’t doing this to please her constituents; she has grander political ambitions and sees this as a prerequisite to gaining favor with the party brass.
I completely agree with him on that.
but, does a mayor has any power to do any of that?
What impact does Zohran Mamdani realistically have over weapons sent to Israel?
You mean his full boycott on Israel until it follows international law which goes far beyond a simple weapons emargo?
Are these policy plans of his?
Yes.
Well, then I stand corrected.
It makes no sense. It’s not like there’s a gazzilion jews in America and that’s why the majority of US politicians support Israel unconditionally. Jews in New York or elsewhere can cast only so many votes.
My money says she opposed the amendment because it would be unpopular in her constituency if she didn’t.
So you are saying she is an establishment Democrat and not a progressive.
She’s supposed to represent her constituents
Who want to send weapons to Israel right?
I’m just saying this whole argument of progressives and Dems and RINOs and stupid shit is part of why there is no actual progress.
A) their job is to represent their voters. Not enforce their own opinions
B) progressives consume each other like crabs in a bucket while terrible politicians don’t care and move ahead
Democratic voters don’t support Israel anymore, so she’s actually going against her voters to cast this vote.
You’ve spoken to every single one of them?
Because that’s not true I literally know them
I’ve seen polls. 🙄
Also, let’s not ignore Zohran Mamdani winning his primary.
Times have changed. Democrats aren’t Zionists and she’s voting against what her voters want.
Okay so you support genocide and want AOC to support genocide.
Idealist. Everything is black and white, is or is not.
Genocide isn’t black and white to you?
Whatever, fuck mtg, can’t legitimize her bullshit
Do you think Ilhan Omar, Rashida Talib, Al Green and Summer Lee were incorrect in their vote?
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sure, something about a broken clock right twice a day. But progressive members of the democrats voted with MTG’s amendment because no one should be arming a genocidal state during a genocidal campaign to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian people. You care more about optics of not wanting to ‘hand it to MTG’ over the real experience of Palestinians?
And only just a few democrats voted with MTG here.
This just shows you how pathetic the democrats, except a few members are.
Shame on AOC for voting against this during a genocidal campaign. Absolute shame. She has a lot of explaining to do for her so-called ‘progressive’ credentials.
This is less about endorsing MTG and more about the 429 members of Congress who voted in favor of supplying missiles to Israel.
I didn’t ask you to. I think AOC voted wrong. I asked about Talib et al.
Do you think Talib was incorrect in her vote? Do you think her voting to defund Israel was wrong?
Years ago the democrats (and obviously the republicans) have shown how vile they are against Palestinians.
literally not a single person has asked or suggested you to do so
Yeah, I literally woke up just to be combative. Sorry.
i’m okay no worries dawg, i could have more politely phrased it too but yeah nobody’s handing her nothin’ imo. hope your day goes good
You do, in fact, gotta hand it to her.
but think of the optics 😭
you can’t show that a loon from the republicans has more sense (in this one instance) than most democrats. you absolutely can’t 😭
We have to pretend this theater actually matters and participate in debate broing
You joined the discussion of your own choice when you stated:
Whatever, fuck mtg, can’t legitimize her bullshit
Do you think Talib and others were wrong to support the amendment cutting funds to Israel?
Do you think Talib and others were wrong to support the amendment cutting funds to Israel?
No.
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“Anti-Semites are opposed to Israel, so being opposed to Israel is legitimizing anti-Semites.”
This is how you sound right now.
No, that is, in fact, not at all what I sound like
Always an excuse to vote for Israel. 4 real progressives voted yes on the amendement.
Thankfully, I’m not a participant in electoral politics and will never have to make this calculation
It’s time the left starts punishing politicians for sending weapons to a literal genocide instead of worrying about optics.
What optics? Mtg is a fucking demon and any positive attention that goes to her is of negative interest to many millions
You know what is to the negative interest of millions? Giving Israel the weapons it uses to kill them.
Not doing this
“a broken clock…” applies here
EDIT: That was rude, sorry.
This is a bad take. Openly siding with a genocide is worse than taking sides against the genocide, even when mtg is the one who suggested taking their missiles away.
This debate trap i didn’t want to have and that everyone’s trying to push towards. Nobody is siding with genocide.
And let’s be honest, mtg is a genicider herself
