With climate change looming, it seems so completely backwards to go back to using it again.

Is it coal miners pushing to keep their jobs? Fear of nuclear power? Is purely politically motivated, or are there genuinely people who believe coal is clean?


Edit, I will admit I was ignorant to the usage of coal nowadays.

Now I’m more depressed than when I posted this

  • tinkeringidiot@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    59
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    It never stopped. Hasn’t even really slowed down.

    People need electricity. Renewables are great, but they don’t provide for the full generation need. Coal and natural gas power generation will continue unabated until a better (read: lower price for similar reliability) solution takes their place.

    In my opinion, fossil fuel generation won’t take a real hit until the grid-scale energy storage problem is solved.

    • saigot@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Hasn’t even really slowed down.

      I think thats… not wrong per say, but somewhat misleading. Coal consumption has been steady worldwide for the last decade despite the population going up a whole billion, and as the average persons energy usage has gone up (largely as a result of growing quality of life in developing nations).

      • tinkeringidiot@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        Absolutely. Coal has remained consistent as demand for power has risen steadily. Renewables are growing, but remain a tiny slice of the whole generation picture.

        Natural gas has become a cheap and reliable replacement for coal over the last 10-15 years as it’s become less expensive to transport. Many coal plants have been converted, even. So as demand has risen, it’s natural gas, not renewables, that is filling the gap.

      • tinkeringidiot@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Storage. Coal, natural gas, and nuclear generate power regardless of weather, day and night.

        Solar generates plenty of electricity (with enough panels installed), but it slows down significantly under cloudy skies and stops entirely at night.

        Wind generates plenty as well…unless the wind stops blowing.

        The grid needs power all the time, not just when it’s sunny and windy. For renewables to actually compete, the excess power they generate during sunny and windy times needs to be stored for use when it’s dark and still.

        As much as we applaud lithium batteries, our energy storage technologies are abysmally inefficient. We’re nowhere near being able to store and discharge grid-scale power the way we’d need to for full adoption of renewables. The very best we can do today (and I wish I were kidding) is pump water up a hill, then use hydroelectric generators as it flows back down. Our energy storage tech is literally in the Stone Age.

          • wewbull@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            1 year ago

            Pumped water is about the only practical gravity battery, but it has limitations.

            1. It can only be built in a few geographical locations.
            2. This tends to limit it’s overall capacity unless you’re Norway or Switzerland.
            3. It requires flooding an area to make a storage lake and so has a high environmental impact.
            4. Building power stations inside mountains is difficult and expensive.

            So it’s great stuff, but I don’t think it’s going to be the backbone of any storage solution we have.

          • tinkeringidiot@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            It works very well, not disputing that.

            But, like geothermal power generation (which is also very good), it’s extremely dependent on location. Most populated areas don’t have the altitude differential (steep hills) and/or water supply to implement pumped hydro storage.

            Where it can be used, it should be (and largely is - fossil fuel generation does better with some storage as well, since demand is not consistent), but it’s hardly something that can be deployed alongside solar and wind generators everywhere.

            • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              With some high voltage long-range transmission lines you could viably do it pretty much everywhere. Just requires some cooperation.

              Yes it will slightly reduce efficiency over very long distances, but it’s not unreasonable amounts.

              • tinkeringidiot@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                Long range transmission of AC power is limited to about 40 miles. DC can be transmitted much farther, but the infrastructure is substantially more expensive (because it’s more dangerous), so that’s only done for extreme need.

                We aren’t getting away from having many power generators all over the place, so one location-dependent storage solution isn’t going to solve all the problems.

              • hoshikarakitaridia@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I might also add there’s smart algorithms being developed for about 5y+ now that distribute power surplus and deficiency over a grid. This will probably be key. Just take a look at “energy metering”.

        • blazera@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          ah you already beat me to the response, pumped hydro is already utility scale baseline power supply

        • blazera@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          my energy bill right now is like a new solar panel a month. what resources do we not have, and are you familiar with pumped storage? spoilers, we already have renewable stable energy supply

      • Wanderer@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Time. People can see past the storage issue when it’s not that big of an issue.

        Interconnectors and curtailment at peak output are economically optimal. The renewable transition doesn’t seem to be slowing.

        The renewable boom has only been going for about 10 years. Give it another 10-20 and the world will look drastically different in one generation.