It doesn’t matter what they wanted, since every single 3rd party vote (including right wing third parties) could have gone to Kamala and she still would have lost.
First of all, 3rd party voters could make the difference in any given election because multiple elections have been much closer than this one. They had no idea whether they were going to make the difference or not when they filled out their ballots.
Secondly, many, if not most, of those 3rd party voters REALLY didn’t want Trump, but they also wanted a 3rd party canidate more than Harris. Now they get Trump, their least favorite pick. And again, they filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to be responsible for that happening or not.
Also, while it didn’t matter overall, at least Wisconsin would have swung Harris if she got the majority of 3rd party voters, not even all of them. So it did matter in some states, even though probably not in enough.
But the point is they COULD have made the difference and for all they knew at the time were making the difference because in other elections 3rd party votes have made the difference. If anything, it not mattering in this election is just going to embolden them to vote 3rd party again in another election where we find out afterward that it really would have made the difference.
And it’s not like there’s any reality at all where their 3rd party candidate could have won, so why take that massive gamble? The bottom line is that we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election, so it’s patently stupid to vote 3rd party in a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
Whenever I see people bring that up, there seems to be an assumption that Kamala definitely would have won if more people voted. Maybe that’s true, but who’s to say? I do agree that Dems need to increase turnout if they want to remain competitive, and I hope they do that by running a better campaign rather than banking on the idea that being “not Trump” will be enough to win. I’m not optimistic about that though.
Fair point. But I’ll add that conservatives show up to vote. It’s almost a given that trump got all he was going to get. Of the 90,000,000 people that chose not to- it’s safe to assume that many of them would have voted for Kamala had it not been for the single issue non-voters, or protest non-voters.
I agree with the rest of your point. And well said.
Would’ve happened regardless of my vote and the votes of Green/PSL voters. Your candidate had the worst electoral performance since the Republicans took California. Would’ve needed a better candidate and a party that actually listens to criticism, instead y’all chose to stuff your fingers in your ears and dismiss any and all criticism and proceeded to eat shit, as we told you would happen. You can’t pin this one on us, the failure is on your candidate and party.
Would’ve needed a better candidate and a party that actually listens to criticism
Liberals (and independents) complained that Biden was too old (despite Trump being equally old) and it became a serious issue and they replaced him with a younger candidate. That’s called listening to criticism.
You can’t pin this one on us
Not retroactively. But every single 3rd party voter filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to make the difference or not. Because some elections have come a lot closer than this one and 3rd party voters did make the difference. It’s not particularly meaningful to me that you point out it wasn’t your fault after the fact, when you didn’t know whether it would be your fault or not at the time. That’s like a kid admitting he threw the kitchen knife at his sister but it didn’t hit her so everything is totally fine and the subject can be closed.
The fact remains that it’s patently stupid to vote for a 3rd party presidential candidate because we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
Not retroactively. But every single 3rd party voter filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to make the difference or not. Because some elections have come a lot closer than this one and 3rd party voters did make the difference. It’s not particularly meaningful to me that you point out it wasn’t your fault after the fact, when you didn’t know whether it would be your fault or not at the time. That’s like a kid admitting he threw the kitchen knife at his sister but it didn’t hit her so everything is totally fine and the subject can be closed.
The question is what you’re looking at. If your primary concern is understanding why Kamala lost, then it is very relevant to point out the fact that we did not cost her the election. If your primary concern is establishing the moral standing of individual voters, then I suppose it’s less relevant.
To be perfectly clear, if we cost a candidate like Kamala the election, I would be perfectly fine with it. I wish that we did represent a larger contingent of the vote so that we had the power to deny a win to any candidate that doesn’t meet our demands. It would be preferable if our kitchen knife hit and we could claim credit for it. Unfortunately, your candidate lost for other reasons.
Of course, the only analysis liberals seem capable of is looking at the moral purity of individual voters. It is inconceivable to punch up and critique our rulers. The Democratic party can never fail, it can only be failed. This aversion to self-critique and reflection is itself part of why the Democrats failed, and why they will continue to fail.
But we told them so.
Vote 3rd party and an anti-democratic felon rapist will be your leader.
Then it happened.
Could they also tell us I told you so?
3rd party voters, “Focus on these issues or we won’t vote for you and you will lose.”
Dems didn’t listen to voters and instead moved closer to corporations/conservatives.
Then it happened.
And now those 3rd party voters who didn’t want that, are getting that, to the extreme.
It doesn’t matter what they wanted, since every single 3rd party vote (including right wing third parties) could have gone to Kamala and she still would have lost.
But that doesn’t change my comment.
First of all, 3rd party voters could make the difference in any given election because multiple elections have been much closer than this one. They had no idea whether they were going to make the difference or not when they filled out their ballots.
Secondly, many, if not most, of those 3rd party voters REALLY didn’t want Trump, but they also wanted a 3rd party canidate more than Harris. Now they get Trump, their least favorite pick. And again, they filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to be responsible for that happening or not.
Also, while it didn’t matter overall, at least Wisconsin would have swung Harris if she got the majority of 3rd party voters, not even all of them. So it did matter in some states, even though probably not in enough.
But the point is they COULD have made the difference and for all they knew at the time were making the difference because in other elections 3rd party votes have made the difference. If anything, it not mattering in this election is just going to embolden them to vote 3rd party again in another election where we find out afterward that it really would have made the difference.
And it’s not like there’s any reality at all where their 3rd party candidate could have won, so why take that massive gamble? The bottom line is that we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election, so it’s patently stupid to vote 3rd party in a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
Now consider all the people that stayed home and didn’t vote in protest. People seem to like leaving them out.
Whenever I see people bring that up, there seems to be an assumption that Kamala definitely would have won if more people voted. Maybe that’s true, but who’s to say? I do agree that Dems need to increase turnout if they want to remain competitive, and I hope they do that by running a better campaign rather than banking on the idea that being “not Trump” will be enough to win. I’m not optimistic about that though.
Fair point. But I’ll add that conservatives show up to vote. It’s almost a given that trump got all he was going to get. Of the 90,000,000 people that chose not to- it’s safe to assume that many of them would have voted for Kamala had it not been for the single issue non-voters, or protest non-voters.
I agree with the rest of your point. And well said.
Would’ve happened regardless of my vote and the votes of Green/PSL voters. Your candidate had the worst electoral performance since the Republicans took California. Would’ve needed a better candidate and a party that actually listens to criticism, instead y’all chose to stuff your fingers in your ears and dismiss any and all criticism and proceeded to eat shit, as we told you would happen. You can’t pin this one on us, the failure is on your candidate and party.
Liberals (and independents) complained that Biden was too old (despite Trump being equally old) and it became a serious issue and they replaced him with a younger candidate. That’s called listening to criticism.
Not retroactively. But every single 3rd party voter filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to make the difference or not. Because some elections have come a lot closer than this one and 3rd party voters did make the difference. It’s not particularly meaningful to me that you point out it wasn’t your fault after the fact, when you didn’t know whether it would be your fault or not at the time. That’s like a kid admitting he threw the kitchen knife at his sister but it didn’t hit her so everything is totally fine and the subject can be closed.
The fact remains that it’s patently stupid to vote for a 3rd party presidential candidate because we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
The question is what you’re looking at. If your primary concern is understanding why Kamala lost, then it is very relevant to point out the fact that we did not cost her the election. If your primary concern is establishing the moral standing of individual voters, then I suppose it’s less relevant.
To be perfectly clear, if we cost a candidate like Kamala the election, I would be perfectly fine with it. I wish that we did represent a larger contingent of the vote so that we had the power to deny a win to any candidate that doesn’t meet our demands. It would be preferable if our kitchen knife hit and we could claim credit for it. Unfortunately, your candidate lost for other reasons.
Of course, the only analysis liberals seem capable of is looking at the moral purity of individual voters. It is inconceivable to punch up and critique our rulers. The Democratic party can never fail, it can only be failed. This aversion to self-critique and reflection is itself part of why the Democrats failed, and why they will continue to fail.