Electric cars are not THE solution.

  • RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca
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    14 days ago

    I’ve been saying this for a while. Not only that, but electric cars are substantially heavier than their ICE-powered equivalents, meaning both tires and roads wear out more quickly. Plus, there’s a ton of pollution and other environmental damage caused by battery production that at least partly offsets the lack of tailpipe emissions.

    As loathe as I am to admit, because I’m a car enthusiast and I enjoy driving, cars cannot be the default mode of transportation everywhere indefinitely; they will always need to exist, but should mostly be for small centres with no capacity to implement transit infrastructure and last mile type of things.

    • Bob Robertson IX @discuss.tchncs.de
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      14 days ago

      Plus, there’s a ton of pollution and other environmental damage caused by battery production that at least partly offsets the lack of tailpipe emissions.

      The battery production pollution is an issue, however one thing to keep in mind is that once the minerals are out of the ground they can be recycled, unlike drilling for oil. When looked at on a long timeline the battery for an electric vehicle is a lot cleaner than everything needed to power an ICE vehicle.

      That said, there’s always room for improvement and we should never get complacent. But we don’t avoid innovation just because it isn’t perfect.

    • manualoverride@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      This should be the definition of ‘letting perfect be the enemy of good’ Please stop using false oil lobby talking points to attack the transition to electric cars. Electric cars are an order of magnitude better for the environment than petrol/diesel, stop fighting big oils battle for them. Now let’s talk about how we can reduce road journeys through public transport, and reduce environmental impact of tires.

    • Snoopey@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      Is that true about the tires though? Electric car tires are designed to be substantially tougher because of the increase in weight, do they actually shed more material?

      • RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca
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        14 days ago

        There’s no such thing as an “electric car tire.” They just use standard passenger vehicle tires rated for the appropriate weight class.

        “Tougher” just means they handle more weight by holding higher air pressure, so they’ll have more layers of steel, kevlar, canvas, etc. The materials that makes contact with the road still wear the same.

        • FrederikNJS@lemm.ee
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          13 days ago

          There is in fact such a thing as an “electric car tire”.

          Fundamentally you are correct that they are in essence just tires rated for the weight class, but there’s more to it than just that.

          Electric car tires are usually made with a stiffer rubber than comparable combustion cars, this is mostly to handle the additional weight, but they also stagger the tread pattern, and some have foam inside them, both to improve the noise and acoustics of them. Something that wasn’t a problem when there were a noisy combustion engine running. But in an electric car you don’t have the engine noise, and therefore hear a lot more of the wheel noise.

          None of this help with the particle emissions, but there is in fact such a thing as an electric car tire.

          Engineering Explained has a great video if you are curious: https://youtu.be/8pM9o2Ifcro

          • Snoopey@lemmy.world
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            13 days ago

            This is what I’d read, this guy specifically states that the tires are much stiffer to counteract the increased wear of a regular tire from the 20-30% increase in car weight. Anyone know of any good studies on this?

      • vodka@lemm.ee
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        14 days ago

        You can’t really engineer away the need for friction, and if there’s friction there is going to be wear.

        If EV tires were much better than normal tires with the same grip levels and somehow magically less wear, all tires would adopt that technology.

        Not that I’m a materials scientist, but EV tires don’t seem much different than other “economy” tires, other than a higher load rating.

          • vodka@lemm.ee
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            13 days ago

            All the EVs I see sold around where I live (Norway) come with the same eco tires as ICE cars. The heavier ones like a Tesla Model X just comes with the same tires rated for higher load. (And the extra foam inside for sound dampening, but that’s an option for most tires) The Model X also happens to be delivered with the same tire they put on the very much not EV Ford Explorer.

            • FrederikNJS@lemm.ee
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              13 days ago

              I know nothing about the tires on the Teslas or the non EV ford explorer, or even what tires are fitted in Norway. But the Hyundai Ioniq 5 I bought in Denmark last year came fitted with Michelin Primacy 4 tires, which are indeed EV tires.

              • vodka@lemm.ee
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                13 days ago

                What makes it EV and not just an eco tire? On Michelins website (Norwegian one) and various tire shop websites it just, an eco tire.

                • FrederikNJS@lemm.ee
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                  13 days ago

                  The staggered tread pattern, the stiffer rubber, the profile of the tire, and the sound dampening foam inside the tire. There’s nothing stopping you from mounting these on regular ICE cars though.

                  Here’s a video explaining more about EV tires:

                  https://youtu.be/8pM9o2Ifcro

                  • vodka@lemm.ee
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                    13 days ago

                    Yeah my point is that this is… just an eco tire and not specific to EVs in anyway.

                    Did EVs cause eco tires to advance a lot? Yes.

                    Are they different from other eco tires? No.

                    Are they different to other tires in America? Yes because they didn’t really have eco tires before EVs.

      • AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml
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        13 days ago

        They use the same materials, they’re usually just thicker. If you get one of those heavy boat luxury cars you’ll put the same tires on them. They shed material at a faster rate, but they have more material to compensate.