I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down
Yeah, the famous antifa-tankers. Every single person I’ve ever seen that identifies as antifa was a tanker. Other people run away from that label.
I really hate that I need to point this out, because I feel like it will derail the discussion from Hexbear to fascism:
“Antifa” boils down to “people who actively oppose fascism”, instead of either supporting it or sitting on their hands while doing jack shit.
But if you’re anti fascism but pro authoritarianism, you’re still wrong…
I highly recommend you give Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism and On Authority a read. At least On Authority, as it’s a very short piece, but the two combined should give you a basic understanding of the historical and theoretical basis of why marxists defend the use of authority. I can understand where you are coming from, I was more than a little skeptical of authoritarianism when I was younger and still identified as an anarchist, but I think if you take the time to honestly engage with our position then you will at least understand why our stance is what it is, and how we are diametrically opposed to fascism, even if you don’t agree with us.
Blackshirts and Reds was eye opening for me
Plenty HB users are authoritarian. I disagree with them in this; however I don’t think that both things cancel out, given the fascism is orders of magnitude worse than authoritarianism alone.
Aaaand you’re low-key defending authoritarianism…
Yeah, because saying “cat shit is not as huge as elephant shit” is the same as saying “cat shit is not shit”. /s
This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.
This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.
Wtf is loam?
Loam (suglinok literally means “next to clay”) is a sandy soil with under 35-40% clay content, as you can tell from the political compass I posted
Liberalism in the center? Gosh, this is the most American political coordinates there could be
It’s almost physically triggering how off-base that is
I’m sorry, I’m an American where liberals are actually centrists, but can you explain to me what else is off-base about this chart?
Edit: I would also like to see a chart that is more accurate in your view if you have one available.
Generally, it is the fact that right-wing entails focus on businesses and private property owners, and left-wing entails direct focus on the economic wellbeing of everyone and a more egalitarian society. Liberals do not strike a meaningful balance here, and commonly see business freedoms as paramount to building a prosperous society, generally pursuing business-friendly policies.
In more extreme cases of the political spectrum (which I agree for in terms of clarity and fairness, but which are not really a consensus) left-wing is seen as actual socialism (i.e. collectively/socially owned enterprises) and right-wing is capitalism (i.e. private property and its operation for profit). This makes a useful and clear distinction in relation to economic policy and is not dictated by the hegemony of one option. It also makes centrism virtually impossible, which is good, because the meaning of “center” drifts radically between cultures, and most people tend to just associate with whatever is predominant in their culture while calling themselves such.
Here is how voters of neighboring Canada have put themselves on a political compass, on average, in relation to their party of choice during the 2019 election. Note that liberals are very much not in the center, and more right-wing, while conservatives as well as People’s party (don’t look at the name, it’s seen as far right even by American metrics), predictably, are extremely authoritarian-right.
P.S. Sorry for being a bit rash :)
Why would you let a “chart” trigger you physically? What good will that do?
The point is that it skews the understanding of “left” and “right” to favor the latter.
Essentially serving as a tool to claim socialist policies extreme and liberal ones perfectly balanced.
Is there something in the name requiring people to support fascism if it wears the right color?
Do some people fighting fascism (aka antifa) go overboard? Yes, certainly; that’s bound to happen with any movement, group, or cohort.
For example, someone might miss the target due to witch hunting, or adopt an “ends always justify means” mindset, or even conflate “non-suporter = enemy”.
However. By implying that “antifa is fascism wearing a different colour”, like you are doing, you’re showing to not understand the obvious difference between
This conflation between both groups is not just immoral. It’s worse - it stinks stupidity and similar filth from a distance. As such I’m not wasting my time further with you, go chew some grass.
Maybe you’re telling on yourself by announcing your disdain for antifascists
Most antifa groups are anarchist collectives. So I’m not sure where you’re seeing this, unless it’s solely from people that are terminally online.
Organized anti-fascist groups often have a mix of left ideological backgrounds, but are mostly anarchists and communists. We work together when it comes to physical defense, barricades, etc.
e.g. many people in black bloc are Maoists even though outsiders tend to assume they are all anarchists.