• lennybird@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    (which isn’t wrong but he’s still the best viable option)

    Whoa, hey now I very much object to the certainty of this claim.

    Yeah, David Axelrod, senior Obama strategist credited with Obama’s successful elections, Obama speech-writers and communications director, and now numerous long-serving Congressional democrats disagree but, totally the best viable option despite poll after poll showing he’s massively down and Biden’s own current campaign strategists reporting they see no viable path.

    If your ship hit the iceberg and is taking on water, any other nearby vessel is a better alternative. At worst, it’s in the same condition. At best, it’s not fucking sinking. 75% of likely voters say Biden is too old to run and Democrats have a better chance with someone else at defeating Trump.

    Disclaimer: we need to jump ship now but I’ll vote for a corpse over Donald Trump. I just think we’ll lose if we stick with Biden and the data shows it.

    • Neato@ttrpg.network
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      4 months ago

      Then the Democrats can pick someone else NOW and rally behind them. This constant undermining of Biden while not providing a good alternative and promoting them is just hurting Democrats chances to save democracy. This is irresponsible on such an obvious level I have to assume they are trying to lose the presidency.

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        It’s all about pressuring Biden in time before his nomination is locked in by the delegates. The moment that happens, this ends for better or worse.

        • Neato@ttrpg.network
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          4 months ago

          If you’re going to pressure an incumbent into dropping out you can’t lead with “we’ll figure out who the nominee is who can beat Trump eventually”. You come to the board with a game plan and evidence. Calling for him to step down is fucking sabotage without all of that.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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            4 months ago

            There’s a Catch-22 here. Anyone who announces they’re willing becomes persona non grata and nonviable, for stabbing the current candidate in the back before he’s stepped down. But why would he step down if he can only be pressured if viable candidates have announced against him?

            Which is why Harris, unfortunately, is most likely to nab the nomination. She’s in just the right position to imply that she’s ready to step up without saying anything that would lead to her being seen as ‘not a team player’ and troublesome for the party.

            • Neato@ttrpg.network
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              4 months ago

              Anyone who announces they’re willing becomes persona non grata and nonviable, for stabbing the current candidate in the back before he’s stepped down.

              None of this should have been done in public. Democrats calling for Biden to step down 1 day after the debate are idiots. This is internal party politics and while it would have leaked, it wouldn’t have been democrats blasting their own party leader in public. They should have figured out who was the most popular, got a backup, got their support, and then went to Biden’s campaign with their evidence. Then if he refused to step down, they maybe could do so in public. Or just wait for the pundits to trash Biden on their own instead of adding to it.

              Division this late is the game is damning. Also Democrats are fair-weather supporters to a T. 1 bad debate and they throw the sitting POTUS under the bus? Yeah he looked old and made mistakes. But he isn’t a fucking fascist. It’s just unbelievable when Trump has been shitting the bed 24/7 for years.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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                4 months ago

                The problem is there have been rumors of this kind of backdoor objection going on for a while now. I dismissed them as gossip at the time, but now that Congress members have gone public, I’m more inclined to believe them. These members going public, including a Senator, sounds much more like desperation after exhausting the quiet options.

                It’s just unbelievable when Trump has been shitting the bed 24/7 for years.

                It is deeply unfair that the Democratic presidential candidate must show exceptional performance, while the fascist presidential candidate can skate by shitting his pants and demanding his followers shit themselves in solidarity, but we’re appealing to two different demographics.

          • lennybird@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            I think you’re looking at this all wrong. All data points to an inevitable Biden loss. Once you accept that, then the question of the alternative almost doesn’t matter.

            The problem is that you cannot in good conscience say that an 81-year-old with THAT debate performance is truly the best Democrats have to muster. If true, then that’s fucking sad.

            Now, I’ve written many write-ups, and now data supports it, showing that any alternative including Harris would fair better. Win? Not necessarily. But have a better chance? Absofuckinglutely.

            • A Harris path is better.
            • An open convention is to me even better with solid reasons for why, if you’re interested.
      • crusa187@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Biden has to willingly step down, the Dem leadership made it clear they won’t attempt to force him. Progressives can’t try to force it either or they will be excised from the party and simultaneously blamed for the inevitable loss.

        Biden hasn’t held a full cabinet meeting since last year, so 25th amendment probably not happening either.

        And so, ramping up the pressure on Biden to do the right thing by stepping down is the only viable option at this time. It sucks, but this is the bed Biden and the DNC made to lie in.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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        4 months ago

        Trump is scared shitless of everyone. That’s what it is, being a paranoid thin-skinned narcissist with a brain rotted by stimulants and venereal disease. I wouldn’t trust Trump’s take on electoral calculus, for or against.

        • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          He fought to run against Bernie because Trump knew Bernie would be easy to beat.

          If Biden is as easy to beat as some say why try to push him away?

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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            4 months ago

            If Biden is as easy to beat as some say why try to push him away?

            Biden is the presumptive nominee. If Trump didn’t attack his prospective opponent at every opportunity, he would be, and as ridiculous as this is to imagine, even stupider than he is now.

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Trump has suddenly began attacking Kamala in speeches. It’s quite clear GOP agree Biden is their easiest opponent, too.

          • lennybird@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Well that feels a bit like goalpost moving, but sure I guess we will for better or worse.

            • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              Do you understand what goalpost moving means?

              In a couple months we’ll know what happened, the stuff we’re speculating about right now, and we’ll know who is wrong and right.

              How is this goalpost moving?

              • lennybird@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago
                • You say: “But Trump is still talking about Biden!”

                • I say: “Actually his latest speeches have begun targeting Kamala directly”

                • You say: “okay well maybe he is, but we’re all just speculating!”<- moving the goalpost

                Do you at least understand how this sounds? Conviction, followed by being demonstrably wrong, then hiding behind speculation.

                • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  Ok, we’ll see what happens and re-visit this conversation in a couple months.

                  We’re both just speculating right now anyways.

                  Is not:

                  okay well maybe he is, but we’re all just speculating!

                  I never agreed with you, I just conceded that the outcome is unknowable at this point.

                  • lennybird@lemmy.world
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                    4 months ago

                    It’s an objective fact that he is talking about Kamala, though? Sure how much that impacts the end-result, we don’t know.

      • Soup@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Trump just enjoys being mean and Biden is currently his opponent. When given the choice between shutting up and cruising to a victory and screaming nonsense(while cruising to a win because his supporters are objectively incredibly stupid people) he’s gunna choose screaming nonsense every time.