- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
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Signal obviously
I’ve never heard anyone suggest telegram as a private service.
Iirc some people used to think so for some reason when it was first released.
I know some people who still think that.
Yeah it was quickly disproven but some people never got the memo
I have but it never really made sense to me
If you trust Telegram you’re naive. Here is a great breakdown earlier this year from Kaspersky.
https://usa.kaspersky.com/blog/telegram-why-nobody-uses-secret-chats/27662/
Signal isn’t perfect either, but their mistakes are far less egregious. They also have removed some of the more egregious mistakes,
like needing a phone number(edit: incorrect, see below) or google play services to function. It can be run on a device without Google Play Services because it only uses Google Play Services for push notifications.Since when does Signal not require a phone number?
Earlier this year. It no longer functions as an SMS service and you now have a username instead. I think the changeover was in March or April.
Hm? Not sure which Signal you’re using. But it very much still requires a phone number to use. Usernames are not available just yet. There’s activity related to usernames in the GitHub repository, but no release yet.
They did remove the ability to send and receive SMS from their Android app. That was about last year or so.
Usernames have not been released yet. When they are released, phone number will still be required for registration, but you will be able to hide it from other people on Signal.
I knew about the SMS thing (Android only), but thought they had yet to release user names as a feature. I see no settings related to user names on iOS. The SMS retirement was to remove the ability to use Signal to replace an SMS app on Android.
Forgive me, you’re correct. I stopped using it when it dropped SMS, because I had only ever able to get people on it through SMS, but at the time had read plans about eventually dropping the phone number requirement. I mixed those things up in my head.
From what I understand, they’re fully invested in dropping the phone number requirement though, and some more googling says that they’ve had versions of Signal PNP (phone number privacy) running for a while now.
You’re correct, that part hasn’t actually changed over yet, but it’s in the works.
They do not at this time intend to drop the phone number requirement, as they see it as an anti-spam measure. Meredith Whittaker has said as much. Phone number privacy is a project independent of requiring phone number at signup, and it just prevents other users from seeing your number.
It is planned, and “in the works” for at least two years at this point. It’ll happen, eventually.
Usernames still aren’t a thing. What are you talking about?
Thanks for the article. That’s a really good breakdown for most arguments of Telegram propagandists. 🙌
Are you both bots? How can anyone read that crap and say it’s a great breakdown?
It’s a single widely known issue, and it can literally be summed up in one short sentence: by default it doesn’t use end-to-end encrypted chats, which are also far inferior in functionality.I’ve never seen a pro-telegram propagandist, but you anti-telegram propagandists are swarming and very tiresome.
We are in a privacy community. A privacy community with a specific website that makes recommendations on messenger apps. And yet, OP is asking for an opinion on comparisons between Signal (recommended by the guide) and Telegram (which isn’t even in the guide). Why would this be necessary if they weren’t thinking Telegram could be a private and secure messenger too? Even tho it’s not recommended on privacy guides. Draw whatever conclusions you want to fit your own world view. But just because others do so differently, doesn’t mean they’re bots. That’s a very lazy way to view the world. And that is also just my opinion. If you wanted to discuss the points of the article, I’m down. But if you’re coming in here to be reductive because you have a differing opinion, then this is all I’m going to be saying to you.
I guess it’s too hard to consider real people with real opinions might populate a niche website with small userbase and an active anti-advertising attitude.
I guess it’s also too hard to just look at an account and decide if it seems spammy or if it seems like a real person, and easier to just cast aspersions because they… annoyed you?
Anyway, thanks for standing up for us both.
Telegram is, by all accounts, a privacy garbage fire. They rolled their own crypto, bless them, and as they say, anyone can design a cryptosystem that they themselves can’t break.
Telegram is not even an option.
Signal every time.
Session and Threema seem to be coming along too, but I’m quite happy with Signal as my go to messaging service for now.
I like the work they do, and the head of the Signal Foundation, Meredith Whitaker, seems very level headed and passionate about their mission.
My only concern with Signal is how they will be able to keep the lights on long term. Either they will continuously need bailouts from billionaire benefactors, or they’ll have to monetize the shit out of their branding, with merch, a Patreon, probably some kind of ads and pushing even more for donations and fundraising. I hope I’m wrong but I have a feeling I’m not.
I love Signal, but at the end of the day they still operate a centralized service with all the drawbacks that entails. It only takes a change of leadership to kick of progressive enshitification, just look at what happened to WhatsApp. Being run by a non-profit should help, but the chance always exists with centralized control. Also their multi-device support is still not great, no official support for Android tablets for example. And idk why not, because Molly (Signal fork) recently added that without too much difficulty afaik.
Session looks really interesting imo, kinda like a decentralized and multi-device version of Signal.
Answer: Signal
I wish people would use Signal, but Telegram is the closest thing to a sane privacy policy I’ve got. There are a few that luckily agreed to use Signal.
Waiting on interoperability, see how that’s implemented in Signal+WhatsApp (hopefully with Telegram to so I can ditch that).
I’m also using telegram but I don’t trust it. It’s made by two Russian brothers who are fleeing from every country in the world. A bit to sketchy in my opinion.
Don’t trust them either but that’s sometimes a good sign. It’s been used for illegal activities using a 3rd party client for a while in one country that I know of, which oddly enough makes me a little more comfortable. Or at least that country just couldn’t get access to the data
non e2e encrypted by default, is not a sane privacy policy
IMO I’d rather have that and have them clearly say they’re not using it for anything than potentially be profiled on WhatsApp where my friends keyboards are spying on their end in terms of content, i.e. be plugged into a social network with half the conversation exposed that way.
I say sane in comparison to that.
Granted these are my own concerns
they use the same keyboards in different apps…
Wdym? I was under the impression that the Google native/default keyboard on Android feeds some stuff to their ad-related dataset
do you change keyboards for different apps? The keyboard itself is a separate app. Switching whatsapp for telegram (of all things) means you switched the messaging app. You did not switch the keyboard app too.
So if you think your keyboard is spying on you, that has absolutely nothing to do with messaging apps. At all
I see the confusion, what I meant to say their keyboard is spying on them which includes their part of my conversation with them. Having an app broadcast the metadata of the conversations (whatsapp) + a keyboard spying on them = me getting profiled, somewhat.
Although Meta tries to go Apple’s way and not share data (likewise for Google, iirc)
Maybe check out beeper? I’m not sure if it has Telegram integration but it works with WhatsApp and Signal as well as Matrix iMessage and others
https://www.beeper.com/privacy
We use your information only as you’ve permitted and in service of bettering your user experience.
Little worried about the second part but I like that’s it’s short
@Scolding7300 @iesou there’s even more to it.
https://www.rubdos.be/privacy/signal/2023/09/07/my-problem-with-beeper.html
‘‘being a passive member of a group with even a single Beeper user destroys group anonymity!’’
That’s a good read, thanks!
Will do, thanks!
As long as Signal requires my phone number, it’s a hard NO for me. I don’t care how good they encrypt if the first thing they do is require one of my most personal identifiers.
Threema has a very good model in that regard.
I heard from their forums it’s something they’re working on, so hopefully this year
You’ll be able to connect with people by giving out your username instead of your phone number. You will however still be required to register using your phone number, if I’m not completely mistaken.
So you can buy a burner phone (number) to receive the registration code and you’re good. Perhaps need to keep the number for migrating to new phone though.
Signal. Also, the solution to the “no-one on signal” problem is simply to refuse to use insecure platforms like WhatsApp. If people want to talk to you then, they have to download signal. They might get annoyed with you, but sometimes a bit of coercion is necessary to get people to do what’s good for them.
Is that a real question?
I use both but for different purposes: Signal for group chats and Telegram for channels (news and piracy).
I trust Signal more.
Out of those options obviously Signal.
In reality I just use SMS because everyone I know is still using that or iMessage so what’s happening at my end is irrelevant to my privacy, and I wouldn’t send anything I wanted to be private from a phone at all. There are no good solutions for that.
worth mentioning that SMS messages are plaintext as they traverse the carrier network. They are also logged by seemingly any equipment that they traverse. Also when they aren’t delivered immediately, they wait in a queue on the network waiting for the receiving device to “phone home” (pun intended 😎).
The caveat here is often times the plaintext message is in an encrypted tunnel (physical wireless layer, and data tunnels in carrier EPC) but at tunnel endpoints, SMSs are nakey
Signal, but no one I know uses it, no local groups are on it. It doesn’t really have many features.
Meanwhile telegram has tons of people in local groups for all kinds of stuff.
At my time of adoption, Telegram had a better feature set and I wasn’t honestly super focused on the privacy minutia. Knowing what I know now…I guess Signal, but honestly I’d probably go even more niche if I was after something truly private. Like P2P messengers or something like that. I don’t really treat any messaging platform as fully private. If I really need something guaranteed to be private and I don’t want to try to convince a friend to install a new, even more obscure app, I’d probably just encrypt text files and generate keys for each other and send them via something, maybe email idk.
I would trust a Matrix client like Element / Schildichat over Signal and Telegram. But if we are only considering the latter, I would pick signal (like many other comments have mentioned).
Trust doesn’t matter if no one uses these platforms to message you.
I persuaded my friends into trying other messaging platforms but they ended up flocking back to Whatsapp because their contacts are not on Signal and definitely not on Matrix. Also normies may find Element/Matrix difficult to use. Almost all of them have Telegram accounts and believes it’s more private than Whatsapp, also apparently they use it as a content downloading app than a messaging app.
None of them to be honest.
